Here's another controversial question...

[kimbercuddles]

Scenario: A man and a woman are intimate and the woman becomes pregnant.
(they are not blood relatives) What, if any, rights should the man have? What if the woman wants an abortion and the man does not? Should he have some say in the situation?

[Panterro]

WOW, talk about a good question, one I have often thought about.

There are many levels to this.. one could argue that it took two to make the baby, and there for each have an equal say. Then again, it does share and grow in the women only, and as her body.. she has ultimate say.

Im not sure where to stand on this one.. I look forward to our discussion, as long as we can keep in civil.

[kimbercuddles]

Hi Panterro...lol...yes, civil participants only!

There was some controversy regarding this topic not so long ago. There are many points of discussion with this situation. Because I am the one who brought it up, I will say that I definitely believe that the man should have some say. The baby would be half his...doesn't that account for something?

Liberals often say that it is a woman's choice because it involves her body. But there are actually three human lives to consider, in my opinion. It seems awfully selfish to me that a woman can abort a child because it's inconvenient. There are many people who would give anything to be able to have a child and desperately want to adopt.

Is it the child's fault that the man and woman were irresponsible and didn't take precautionary measures to prevent a human life from forming? Why is it that the woman can do whatever she pleases, yet the man basically must go along with whatever the woman decides?

[simplyjacy]

Abortion has always been a very controversial issue. I would not be surprise if this thread would go out of hand but I hope it will continue to be a civil discussion. This is a very sensitive topic.

Technically, I think the man has something to say regarding the woman's decision of getting an abortion. Besides, it was both of them who were involved in the formation of life inside her.

By practice, women tends to make the decision all by herself. And usually it's the men's behavior that made them decide. Having no support from men or worse rejection leads them to do it.

[MyAzi]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

Scenario: A man and a woman are intimate and the woman becomes pregnant.
(they are not blood relatives) What, if any, rights should the man have? What if the woman wants an abortion and the man does not? Should he have some say in the situation?

okay if the man and woman ARE blood relatives...isn't that against the law in most states??? If nothing else it is just plain wrong in my book.

And I am far from Liberal but I do think the man should be told and he can voice his opinion... but the final decision should be hers.

I have thought of this since my son became an adult... What if he got a girl pregnant and she wanted to abort. I know my son would not want that. Nor would I and I know we would do everything we could to talk her out of it. However the final decision would be hers and we would have to respect that.

[simplyjacy]

amen to that.

[RAINBOWWAVES]

when a man and a woman choose to take the chance of a pregnancy outside of marriage, chances are great that the man will not want the baby. More times then not, it is the woman that will have to deal and so therefore it is more or less a given that women have the decision. When a man does in fact want the baby and the woman doesn't, the woman should have the man sign papers that he will take full responsibility for the child.

[simplyjacy]

For me, the father has the right to have a voice on the situation. Same goes for the child... who has the right to live.

Sometimes, it puts the father in a crucial stand. If the father wants to stand and defend his child from abortion will be accused of meddling other people's business. On the other hand, if the father leaves the decision to the mother, he will appear to be uncaring and irresponsible. This will more cause the mother to feel isolated and will resort to abortion.

[kimbercuddles]

I have a four year old son, so hopefully it will be awhile before I will even need to THINK about this situation...however, what happens if the man wants the child and the woman doesn't? I'll admit, it's not a common situation...and I think signing papers would be part of the answer...as Rainbow mentioned.

One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is because I have a friend in San Antonio (male about 40 years old) who just recently found out that he has a 10 year old son. The only reason that the woman told him about this boy is because she needs money. It's so unfair to me that my friend missed out on 10 years of his son's life...yet he didn't even realize that she was pregnant. And now he must pay 10 years of child support...there's something terribly wrong with the system to allow this to happen.

Any opinions on this situation?

[RAINBOWWAVES]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

I have a four year old son, so hopefully it will be awhile before I will even need to THINK about this situation...however, what happens if the man wants the child and the woman doesn't? I'll admit, it's not a common situation...and I think signing papers would be part of the answer...as Rainbow mentioned.

One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is because I have a friend in San Antonio (male about 40 years old) who just recently found out that he has a 10 year old son. The only reason that the woman told him about this boy is because she needs money. It's so unfair to me that my friend missed out on 10 years of his son's life...yet he didn't even realize that she was pregnant. And now he must pay 10 years of child support...there's something terribly wrong with the system to allow this to happen.

Any opinions on this situation?

There should be a limit just as there is for everything..say, one year...after that you cannot sue the man for support.

[RodFarlee]

Count out all the emotional, moral, and ethical issues on the fingers of one hand. Now fold those fingers up, and put that hand behind your back. Set those issues aside, and ask the purely pragmatic question:

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

Scenario: A man and a woman are intimate and the woman becomes pregnant.
(they are not blood relatives) What, if any, rights should the man have? What if the woman wants an abortion and the man does not? Should he have some say in the situation?

Does she want him to be part of her life in the future?
Answer that question, you've answered your question.

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is because I have a friend in San Antonio (male about 40 years old) who just recently found out that he has a 10 year old son. The only reason that the woman told him about this boy is because she needs money. It's so unfair to me that my friend missed out on 10 years of his son's life...yet he didn't even realize that she was pregnant. And now he must pay 10 years of child support...there's something terribly wrong with the system to allow this to happen.

Any opinions on this situation?

On the fingers of one hand, count out all the rights of the mother, all the could-haves, should-haves, and would-haves. On the other, do the same for the father. Now fold both hands up, and put them behind your back. Sweep all those issues aside, and ask the purely pragmatic question:

No matter how we got here and now, from this point forward, what is in the best interests of this child?

It's all about the child, not about the parents.
It's all about his future, not about their past.

[PDXnative]

It is the women's body, she should have the right to do whatever she wants with it.

[Jenbar]

But there are actually three human lives to consider, in my opinion.

... and that's where the basis to this debate generally lies. Many believe that it's not a "life" yet, to consider.

[MyAzi]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

I have a four year old son, so hopefully it will be awhile before I will even need to THINK about this situation...however, what happens if the man wants the child and the woman doesn't? I'll admit, it's not a common situation...and I think signing papers would be part of the answer...as Rainbow mentioned.

One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is because I have a friend in San Antonio (male about 40 years old) who just recently found out that he has a 10 year old son. The only reason that the woman told him about this boy is because she needs money. It's so unfair to me that my friend missed out on 10 years of his son's life...yet he didn't even realize that she was pregnant. And now he must pay 10 years of child support...there's something terribly wrong with the system to allow this to happen.

Any opinions on this situation?

Bottom line .. it is about the child. If a man gets a woman pregnant then he nor she were careful.. even on the remote change that the condom failed, it is still about the child and that child has a right to a decent life.

It doesn't make it right... and the woman was wrong to keep the father away. But like I said bottom line... it is about the child. I do believe there should be a law in place that they can't ask for past child support if the choice of the mother was to hide this child. But some kind of support should be implemented at the point that she shares that news.

[Curious George]

I see we have a new, old member posting with us now . Hi jacy glad you joined the party we need some new posters. Like the bunny is that thumper ? I had a rabbit when I was a kid an called him thumper. I didn’t partake on cuddles last decision kind of about this so
I’ll do both hear now.

Just because we as a society or world do not recognize LIFE at it’s earliest form. dose not make it not a LIFE. A life is one of the most precious things there is on this earth how ever small it is, to create it an watch it grow is truly a marvel an a blessing .we talk about all the different scenarios of how it came to be , it doesn’t matter it is still a life. we talk about all the so called rights of the mother an father an all the inconveniences an bother this child would create , that maybe so but it is still a life . there are allot of problems to be solved regarding this, but extermination by abortion because it is easy an creates little
Problem for the doctor or women is not the answer .some in society talk about this as though They are nothing more than blobs of fluid an junk . some would give them no more thought than squishing a bug .I have much respect for all the mothers however they got in that situation an said, I will not take the easy way out .I will not deprive the unborn of that life experience. It is my belief that in the end thoses mothers an doctors will meet thoses aborted children face to face an those children will say why mommy why.
If the mother doesn’t want the child the father should be allowed to have him .but she should go full term. Making the father back pay when he hade no knowledge or visitation rights seems a bit much .I think it is wrong when parents weather married or un married use the kid , kids against the other for gain or whatever.

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by MyAzi

Bottom line .. it is about the child. If a man gets a woman pregnant then he nor she were careful.. even on the remote change that the condom failed, it is still about the child and that child has a right to a decent life.

It doesn't make it right... and the woman was wrong to keep the father away. But like I said bottom line... it is about the child. I do believe there should be a law in place that they can't ask for past child support if the choice of the mother was to hide this child. But some kind of support should be implemented at the point that she shares that news.

Your right, the child does deserve a decent life. But, if it is unwanted, then what kind of decent life is that? Better to abort then to bring another unloved child into this World.

[MyAzi]

Originally Posted by PDXnative

Your right, the child does deserve a decent life. But, if it is unwanted, then what kind of decent life is that? Better to abort then to bring another unloved child into this World.

I was answering this question:

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is because I have a friend in San Antonio (male about 40 years old) who just recently found out that he has a 10 year old son. The only reason that the woman told him about this boy is because she needs money. It's so unfair to me that my friend missed out on 10 years of his son's life...yet he didn't even realize that she was pregnant. And now he must pay 10 years of child support...there's something terribly wrong with the system to allow this to happen.

Any opinions on this situation?

And Abortion in my opinion is a selfish act...HOWEVER.... I do believe that every woman has the right to make that choice. Just because I could never do it doesn't mean that others are bad because they choose that route.

And George.. I don't agree... But I have heard many men say that. When I first found I was pregnant... to me that was my child a real life. I felt it from the very core of me. I didn't see it as a growth or embryo. It was my child. And I will admit until I became pregnant, I never thought of a pregnancy as a life. I am sure there are many women that may agree with you... I know one that does...but it was many years later that she told me that she HAD to think that way or she could never live with aborting her baby years ago.

[Jenbar]

On this topic, I have to seperate myself (as a mother) from the facts. I can't think emotionally. For ME, no - abortion is not the answer... but regardless of my emotions, I also don't want the government telling me or anyone else what I HAVE to do with my body.

My body, my choice.

The man knows the risks. If he didn't want a child he shouldn't be having unprotected, unmarried sex. If he DOES want a child and she doesn't - he needs to speak to the woman he's with and discuss these sorts of things before having the unprotected, unmarried sex. Being that you can't "force" a woman to be an incubator for at least 9 months, if you don't have these sorts of conversations - you need to be prepared to accept the outcome.

[Jenbar]

And Abortion in my opinion is a selfish act...

In some cases. But not all.

[Curious George]

Originally Posted by MyAzi

I was answering this question:

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is because I have a friend in San Antonio (male about 40 years old) who just recently found out that he has a 10 year old son. The only reason that the woman told him about this boy is because she needs money. It's so unfair to me that my friend missed out on 10 years of his son's life...yet he didn't even realize that she was pregnant. And now he must pay 10 years of child support...there's something terribly wrong with the system to allow this to happen.

Any opinions on this situation?

And Abortion in my opinion is a selfish act...HOWEVER.... I do believe that every woman has the right to make that choice. Just because I could never do it doesn't mean that others are bad because they choose that route.

And George.. I don't agree... But I have heard many men say that. When I first found I was pregnant... to me that was my child a real life. I felt it from the very core of me. I didn't see it as a growth or embryo. It was my child. And I will admit until I became pregnant, I never thought of a pregnancy as a life. I am sure there are many women that may agree with you... I know one that does...but it was many years later that she told me that she HAD to think that way or she could never live with aborting her baby years ago.

I’m not fallowing could you explain ?

[Jenbar]

Just because we as a society or world do not recognize LIFE at it’s earliest form. dose not make it not a LIFE. A life is one of the most precious things there is on this earth how ever small it is, to create it an watch it grow is truly a marvel an a blessing .we talk about all the different scenarios of how it came to be , it doesn’t matter it is still a life. we talk about all the so called rights of the mother an father an all the inconveniences an bother this child would create , that maybe so but it is still a life . there are allot of problems to be solved regarding this, but extermination by abortion because it is easy an creates little

I think you are misinformed. I don't think "society" states it's not a life. I don't think anyone really treats abortion the same as squishing a bug. In fact, I believe most of our population is just about equally divided on the matter.

As far as when it's considered a viable life.... Some groups state it's a life at conception. Some groups and scientists give other "time periods".

I think your statement is too general without addressing the debate.

[MyAzi]

Originally Posted by Curious George

I’m not fallowing could you explain ?

Sorry George...the first part of that was for PDX... does that clear it up for you? My bad... I forgot to quote his response.

[MyAzi]

Originally Posted by Jenbar

In some cases. But not all.

This is where it could get spiritual and I can't go there in this forum because we all may have different beliefs. That is just my opinion.

[RAINBOWWAVES]

I believe it is a life at the very moment of conception. A life has begun. The Chinese believe, as i do, that you have already been alive for 9 mos so you are really almost a yr older then you are. I do not believe in abortion as a means of birth control. There are just far too many forms of birth control.

[Curious George]

Originally Posted by Jenbar

I think you are misinformed. I don't think "society" states it's not a life. I don't think anyone really treats abortion the same as squishing a bug. In fact, I believe most of our population is just about equally divided on the matter.

As far as when it's considered a viable life.... Some groups state it's a life at conception. Some groups and scientists give other "time periods".

I think your statement is too general without addressing the debate.

If it is considered a life how can we say live or die who are we as a people to judge life or death.
Viable life, as a mother how long would a child last after birth without care?
How can a scientist say life does not begin at the beginning ?
Can a scientist create life without a man or women?
Can a scientist tell me how the body sustains itself all by itself, all I half to do is put in food an water an the rest is automatic .it fixes cuts. turns food into blood an body parts an such. Can a scientist recreate any of that .
But some will take the word of a scientist as to when it is ok abort or kill a life .
Well for me life dose began at conception, when two become one, because without it there is no start of life. as far as I know you can not create life with just one part .

[Curious George]

Originally Posted by MyAzi

This is where it could get spiritual and I can't go there in this forum because we all may have different beliefs. That is just my opinion.

not realy

[Ducky]

When a man is able to carry a fetus he has a right over what happens to it. That's the bottom line. It's a matter of privacy. No one should be able to tell anyone else what they can do with their body. As far as viability, it isn't viable, in my world, until it can eat on it's own without having to be connected to me via a cord for survival.

I have images of A Handmaid's Tale.

Cold you say? Maybe, I prefer to call it pragmatic. In a perfect world he has a say over what happens but in the end he has no control

[Curious George]

Originally Posted by MyAzi

Sorry George...the first part of that was for PDX... does that clear it up for you? My bad... I forgot to quote his response.

Not really sorry replied to wrong post.

[MyAzi]

Originally Posted by Curious George

Not really sorry replied to wrong post.

Okay now I am confused!!!