Securing the Border

[thecuban]

Here is President Bush's proposal as part of the imigration reform:>>Border security funding has gone from nearly $5 billion in 2001 to over $10 billion in 2007. The number of border patrol agents has gone from 9,000 to almost 15,000 during the same time span. By the end of next year, there should be approximately 18,000 border patrol agents. Six-thousand National Guard troops have been called to temporarily assist the Border Patrol with such duties as intelligence analysis, building fences and patrol roads. Infrastructure is being improved and investments in more advanced border technology continue. Additional detention beds has meant that instead of the “catch and release” policy previously used due to the shortage of beds, more illegal immigrants can now be detained.

Here is Thecubans proposal:>> They want America lets give them America. "Let's take over Mexico"!!! It has all the oil,gold,and taco's we need.

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by thecuban

Here is Bush's proposal as part of the imigration reform:>>Border security funding has gone from nearly $5 billion in 2001 to over $10 billion in 2007. The number of border patrol agents has gone from 9,000 to almost 15,000 during the same time span. By the end of next year, there should be approximately 18,000 border patrol agents. Six-thousand National Guard troops have been called to temporarily assist the Border Patrol with such duties as intelligence analysis, building fences and patrol roads. Infrastructure is being improved and investments in more advanced border technology continue. Additional detention beds has meant that instead of the “catch and release” policy previously used due to the shortage of beds, more illegal immigrants can now be detained.

Here is Thecubans proposal:>> They want America lets give them America. "Let's take over Mexico"!!! It has all the oil,gold,and taco's we need.

First, I wonder if you've been taking MY medication?
Had you caught up with me when I was a younger fellow, Cuban, I might've gone along. Too hot for me now, a tad too treeless and missing some of that agua (water) that I like so much.
While I recognize there is a problem ... there is something way too "Berlin-ish" and "Great Wall of China-ish" about this approach. I just don't think these methods we're using live up to "Great Circle of Man" values.
Now, here's my deal - I've always thought it was a great idea - give them Texas and Arizona back!! We'll keep Oklahoma for our Native Americans that we threw there like it was a trash dump and they were trash, keep it for the tribes that were already there (sorry 'bout the "trash" thing) - well, south Texas anyway. No offenses Indiantended!
But again, Cu, I've had the same thought. Scary, eh?

[kimbercuddles]

Originally Posted by thecuban

Here is Bush's proposal as part of the imigration reform:>>Border security funding has gone from nearly $5 billion in 2001 to over $10 billion in 2007. The number of border patrol agents has gone from 9,000 to almost 15,000 during the same time span. By the end of next year, there should be approximately 18,000 border patrol agents. Six-thousand National Guard troops have been called to temporarily assist the Border Patrol with such duties as intelligence analysis, building fences and patrol roads. Infrastructure is being improved and investments in more advanced border technology continue. Additional detention beds has meant that instead of the “catch and release” policy previously used due to the shortage of beds, more illegal immigrants can now be detained.

Here is Thecubans proposal:>> They want America lets give them America. "Let's take over Mexico"!!! It has all the oil,gold,and taco's we need.

No, tell us how you REALLY feel!! If that were truly a viable option, I'd be with you 150%. I support building the fence...regardless of what politically correct liberals say. We can build a Wal-Mart in less than a month...why is it taking so long to get this fence built?!?

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

No, tell us how you REALLY feel!! If that were truly a viable option, I'd be with you 150%. I support building the fence...regardless of what politically correct liberals say. We can build a Wal-Mart in less than a month...why is it taking so long to get this fence built?!?

I know!! I agree. All I hear is a lot of talk no real action!! They cannot pass this reform without securing the border first. Then only then could you in act that guest worker program. "PRESIDENT BUSH", BUILD THAT FENCE!!

[kimbercuddles]

Originally Posted by thecuban

I know!! I agree. All I hear is a lot of talk no real action!! They cannot pass this reform without securing the border first. Then only then could you in act that guest worker program. "PRESIDENT BUSH", BUILD THAT FENCE!!

I heard that the fence will definitely be built, but they are dragging their feet until they have an actual immigration bill that is passed. Supposedly the senate vote on the bill is before Memorial Day...who knows if it will pass.

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

I heard that the fence will definitely be built, but they are dragging their feet until they have an actual immigration bill that is passed. Supposedly the senate vote on the bill is before Memorial Day...who knows if it will pass.

I am against the bill for many reasons but if it does I sure hope they don't go through the legalization process before securing the border. This is a failed system and it needs fixing. I think we should first secure the borders then enact a heavy punishment to those that hire these illegal immigrants. Bus any of them we catch back and then enact the workers program. But there should be no amnesty given to anybody that came here illegally.

[milliebfit]

Originally Posted by thecuban

I am against the bill for many reasons but if it does I sure hope they don't go through the legalization process before securing the border. This is a failed system and it needs fixing. I think we should first secure the borders then enact a heavy punishment to those that hire these illegal immigrants. Bus any of them we catch back and then enact the workers program. But there should be no amnesty given to anybody that came here illegally.

I agree 100%!! SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST!!!!

[kimbercuddles]

Originally Posted by thecuban

I am against the bill for many reasons but if it does I sure hope they don't go through the legalization process before securing the border. This is a failed system and it needs fixing. I think we should first secure the borders then enact a heavy punishment to those that hire these illegal immigrants. Bus any of them we catch back and then enact the workers program. But there should be no amnesty given to anybody that came here illegally.

I couldn't agree with you more. From input that I've received from various people, I really think that the majority of Americans feel the same way. If there's anyone who disagrees, here, I'd be very interested in hearing his/her reasons as to why.

Originally Posted by milliebfit

I agree 100%!! SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST!!!!

Definitely should be the priority, in my opinion, also.

[milliebfit]

I can't imagine anyone against closing off the border, unless of course you are here illegally!!!!

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by milliebfit

I can't imagine anyone against closing off the border, unless of course you are here illegally!!!!

I have issues with it - but no current substitute. Comes from being an Idealist at heart. It's wrong - that is my main issue. Barbaric - that is my minor issue. It's smug and self-righteous and does nothing for people in a general way - that's the underlying voltage. Next, Ohio will put up a fence to keep Pennsylvanians out.
Bad Mojo. It's 11th century stuff. It reminds of of England's dominance over the Irish, Scot and Welsh - all played with the wrong hand.
But whatcha gonna do?

[simplyjacy]

When I got here, of course as a legal immigrant, I get surprise to notice that it doesn't seem to be an american world to me. i have nothing against mexicans but it seemed to me that they are slowly taking away the identity of America. tv ads and billboards always have a spanish translation to it. yo habla espanol? even directions for gadgets and appliances. and it seems to me that their voices are heard than the americans.

i even heard about the pizzeria in texas that takes Peso currency for payment.

[isabel]

Being a native Californian...I grew up with a high population of hispanics. They seem like family to me. Just as American as any of us. My mom worked in Mexican restaurants for years. We ate mexican food as a part of our regular diet. Still do. Half my friends are hispanic...or married to one...or have grandkids that are hispanic.

Hispanics are just as American as Apple pie. I don't get all the fuss about having a large Hispanic population. Now I do agree they need to come into our country legally. They need to also work here legally.

There are many things I like about the Mexican culture. The food, the traditions of many hispanic families. I certainly like the idea of the man's family pays for the wedding...that their are family sponsors that pay for certain items in the wedding. Such as Auntie...pays for the food...uncle pays for the flowers...they all get credit for this on the invite.

Should also mention that 3 of my children are half hispanic. The three we adopted. They don't look it...but have that beautiful golden hair, creme colored skin in the summer...that kids with a mixed heritage sometimes have. All three are beautiful. My youngest has reddish brown hair with sky blue eyes. Everyone comments on her eyes.

Mexicans are just people like us. Looking for the American dream.

Izzy

[simplyjacy]

you're right Izzy. I don't mind having a big percentage of hispanics or other nationalities in the American population. i just thought that people who come here should adapt to the American culture and not have their culture overshadow it. i have my own culture too and i have it in the sideline for handy.

guess it's just not how i expected it. hispanics culture is already a part of the American culture. I just hope it won't be the other way around in this country. but it's just me and my ideals.

[Wyody]

I know that many of you won't necessarily agree with my "idealistic" approach - I did think it odd that my "Elder's Meditation of the Day" for today seems to apply and so, will post it here - this is not to change your mind ... unless you want it changed - this is only to open the area up for ponderance and to better present the larger view that I try and take:

"The earth was created by the assistance of the sun, and it should be left as it was... The country was made without lines of demarcation, and it is no man's business to divide it..."
--Chief Joseph, NEZ PERCE
There is danger when we start to draw lines and boundaries. This is true whether outside ourselves or inside ourselves. The danger is losing sight of the interconnectedness. When we lose sight of interconnectedness, separation, possessiveness ( this is mine, I can do what I want) and infighting results. Even at an individual level, if we don't believe we are connected to all things we get self-centered and have self-seeking motives. We must think in harmony, balance and integrity. We must see our relationship to the great whole and conduct ourselves accordingly ---end quote

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by Wyody

I know that many of you won't necessarily agree with my "idealistic" approach - I did think it odd that my "Elder's Meditation of the Day" for today seems to apply and so, will post it here - this is not to change your mind ... unless you want it changed - this is only to open the area up for ponderance and to better present the larger view that I try and take:

"The earth was created by the assistance of the sun, and it should be left as it was... The country was made without lines of demarcation, and it is no man's business to divide it..."
--Chief Joseph, NEZ PERCE
There is danger when we start to draw lines and boundaries. This is true whether outside ourselves or inside ourselves. The danger is losing sight of the interconnectedness. When we lose sight of interconnectedness, separation, possessiveness ( this is mine, I can do what I want) and infighting results. Even at an individual level, if we don't believe we are connected to all things we get self-centered and have self-seeking motives. We must think in harmony, balance and integrity. We must see our relationship to the great whole and conduct ourselves accordingly ---end quote

Wyody no one can take your love for humanity away from you. I thank you for that but the truth of the matter is that as long as we have evil hanging around we need boundaries. Like it or not we exercise this very thing in a smaller scale everyday. We live behind close doors on a daily bases. Why? Because of evil. We inquire about safe places to live. Why? Because of evil. We can go on for ever with this. I don't want to ever discourage this type of thinking but encourage people to look at your dream as a achievement goal that one day may be possible. Without dreams we still be living in caves dragging our wives by there hair. Wait a minute! "Who dreamed us out of that one"!

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by thecuban

Wyody no one can take your love for humanity away from you. I thank you for that but the truth of the matter is that as long as we have evil hanging around we need boundaries. Like it or not we exercise this very thing in a smaller scale everyday. We live behind close doors on a daily bases. Why? Because of evil. We inquire about safe places to live. Why? Because of evil. We can go on for ever with this. I don't want to ever discourage this type of thinking but encourage people to look at your dream as a achievement goal that one day may be possible. Without dreams we still be living in caves dragging our wives by there hair. Wait a minute! "Who dreamed us out of that one"!

The fence will not take care of evil. My quick guess is, it won't take care of the immigration situation either. It will add $5,000 per head for those who want to make themselves legal ... which will increase our coffers to some small degree. It will give those who want to get in a reason to buy more shovels and dig under the fence, to boat around it, to pogo-stick over it, to fly over it and to cut holes in it. They keep finding tunnels, caves - underground highways, etc. This is a band-aid and I just don't think it will cure the problem but may have a temporary impact and perhaps a longer term detrimental impact.
But as I mentioned, I have no alternative to offer ... but there is one.
We, as a society, are either missing the solution ... or the point. Shoot, concrete can't even beat crabgrass. Chain-link can't even keep the playground safe.
And perhaps we now know why men started cutting their hair during the later 1800's - so women couldn't retaliate!! (dang it, they know about the ears though)

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by Wyody

The fence will not take care of evil. My quick guess is, it won't take care of the immigration situation either. It will add $5,000 per head for those who want to make themselves legal ... which will increase our coffers to some small degree. It will give those who want to get in a reason to buy more shovels and dig under the fence, to boat around it, to pogo-stick over it, to fly over it and to cut holes in it. They keep finding tunnels, caves - underground highways, etc. This is a band-aid and I just don't think it will cure the problem but may have a temporary impact and perhaps a longer term detrimental impact.
But as I mentioned, I have no alternative to offer ... but there is one.
We, as a society, are either missing the solution ... or the point. Shoot, concrete can't even beat crabgrass. Chain-link can't even keep the playground safe.
And perhaps we now know why men started cutting their hair during the later 1800's - so women couldn't retaliate!! (dang it, they know about the ears though)

Your right it won't take care of it but it will slow it down and I am not talking about the Mexican people per say. The purpose of this whole thing is that we don't have any records of people sneaking in. Your right though there is no fool proof method of keeping evil away but we can certainly slow it down.
Why did it take such a long time for women to start cutting there hair shorter? The 90s correct? Could this be the answer to all our question to who is smarter?

[Wyoming53]

Originally Posted by Wyody

I know that many of you won't necessarily agree with my "idealistic" approach - I did think it odd that my "Elder's Meditation of the Day" for today seems to apply and so, will post it here - this is not to change your mind ... unless you want it changed - this is only to open the area up for ponderance and to better present the larger view that I try and take:

"The earth was created by the assistance of the sun, and it should be left as it was... The country was made without lines of demarcation, and it is no man's business to divide it..."
--Chief Joseph, NEZ PERCE
There is danger when we start to draw lines and boundaries. This is true whether outside ourselves or inside ourselves. The danger is losing sight of the interconnectedness. When we lose sight of interconnectedness, separation, possessiveness ( this is mine, I can do what I want) and infighting results. Even at an individual level, if we don't believe we are connected to all things we get self-centered and have self-seeking motives. We must think in harmony, balance and integrity. We must see our relationship to the great whole and conduct ourselves accordingly ---end quote

That's kind of an interesting thing for Chief Josepth to say. He started one of the finest breeds of horses in the world. Did he not keep them separate?

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Wyoming53

That's kind of an interesting thing for Chief Josepth to say. He started one of the finest breeds of horses in the world. Did he not keep them separate?

Yo, 53, check it out and let me know, okay?
I have this feeling that it may fall under the category of the Redman being given the job of permanent care-taker of the land and all that is in it - but I don't know.

Originally Posted by thecuban

Your right it won't take care of it but it will slow it down and I am not talking about the Mexican people per say. The purpose of this whole thing is that we don't have any records of people sneaking in. Your right though there is no fool proof method of keeping evil away but we can certainly slow it down.
Why did it take such a long time for women to start cutting there hair shorter? The 90s correct? Could this be the answer to all our question to who is smarter?

Y'know, Mr. Cuban - I might hang myself out there on occasion for the right-wingers and the conservatives to hang ... but dang if I'm gonna stand next to you on this one. Lightening only hurts for an hour or two - women are forever!
DUCK!!!!
......................................... .............

[Wyoming53]

Originally Posted by Wyody

Yo, 53, check it out and let me know, okay?
I have this feeling that it may fall under the category of the Redman being given the job of permanent care-taker of the land and all that is in it - but I don't know.

Chief Josepth saw into the future more then any man I know. He has some very profound writings about him. I say about because I don't think he ever learned to read or write.

But he took the good old US Army on a journey they would never forget. They saw more country then most see and when they caught him, he just smiled. They were chasing him for his horses. A very special breed. When they caught him, he didn't have them. They were 1800 miles away hidden in a canyon.

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Wyoming53

Chief Josepth saw into the future more then any man I know. He has some very profound writings about him. I say about because I don't think he ever learned to read or write.

But he took the good old US Army on a journey they would never forget. They saw more country then most see and when they caught him, he just smiled. They were chasing him for his horses. A very special breed. When they caught him, he didn't have them. They were 1800 miles away hidden in a canyon.

Sgi (Thank you) my brother. Doheye (Peace)

[kimbercuddles]

Originally Posted by milliebfit

I can't imagine anyone against closing off the border, unless of course you are here illegally!!!!

Excellent point, Millie!

Originally Posted by Wyody

Yo, 53, check it out and let me know, okay?
I have this feeling that it may fall under the category of the Redman being given the job of permanent care-taker of the land and all that is in it - but I don't know.



Y'know, Mr. Cuban - I might hang myself out there on occasion for the right-wingers and the conservatives to hang ... but dang if I'm gonna stand next to you on this one. Lightening only hurts for an hour or two - women are forever!
DUCK!!!!
......................................... .............

Oh Odie...you're among friends, so relax!! I only have one question for you (right now ): In any society, for it to not be totally chaotic, must it not be necessary to have rules and laws? If so, is it not in the best interest of the people for the people who have broken the rules and laws be punished in order to maintain the society? They are called illegal immigrants. There is nothing at all that bothers me about our country having legal immigrants...but the illegal immigrants have already demonstrated that they cannot follow the rules. Come to America, but do it legally, please.

Okay, I lied...that was more than one question. Oops. Math was never my best subject.

[Wyoming53]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

Excellent point, Millie!



Oh Odie...you're among friends, so relax!! I only have one question for you (right now ): In any society, for it to not be totally chaotic, must it not be necessary to have rules and laws? If so, is it not in the best interest of the people for the people who have broken the rules and laws be punished in order to maintain the society? They are called illegal immigrants. There is nothing at all that bothers me about our country having legal immigrants...but the illegal immigrants have already demonstrated that they cannot follow the rules. Come to America, but do it legally, please.

Okay, I lied...that was more than one question. Oops. Math was never my best subject.

Damn Wyody, I think she got us. Shot from the hip and I'm feeling faint. Damn good points and hard ro respute. But I'm here for you buddy, maybe you can carry on......... I'm fading fast.......

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

Excellent point, Millie!
Oh Odie...you're among friends, so relax!! I only have one question for you (right now ): In any society, for it to not be totally chaotic, must it not be necessary to have rules and laws? If so, is it not in the best interest of the people for the people who have broken the rules and laws be punished in order to maintain the society? They are called illegal immigrants. There is nothing at all that bothers me about our country having legal immigrants...but the illegal immigrants have already demonstrated that they cannot follow the rules. Come to America, but do it legally, please.

Okay, I lied...that was more than one question. Oops. Math was never my best subject.

Dang KC, morning coffee is still about half-hour away - but will try this one.
Individuals need rules - self-discipline is the method for accomplishing.
You and I need rules - this is how we announce and protect "our turf".
Society needs rules - to try and help protect and announce the turf of those who are weaker and cannot announce or protect their own.
Get ready - I feel it coming: If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear, does it make a sound?
I relate this old puzzle to bring up - the first illegal immigrants to this country were probably Dutch - around the year 1400 - when they shipwrecked around the Carolinas, made it to shore and were allowed to live by the local bands of American Natives. They are the first white-man recorded and the first known to have stayed.
The second group was Columbus and his Merry band of men - they didn't stay.
The third was a band of marauding Illegal Aliens - landing on our shores in a least one large boat (The Mayflower) - and staying.
So, long before our birth, KC, Illegal Aliens were a big problem - and those aliens kept expanding and eventually took control of someone else's land.
The "Tree Falling" analogy now comes into play - One might say that since the Native Americans did not have a law regarding Immigration, then no harm was done.
I pause slightly to mention that I differ with that opinion.
Now, this country was founded and existed for a few centuries as the "Bring me your tired, your poor ..." - There was no Ellis Island until the mid-to-late 1800's. No sign-in place for Immigrants. Then, mostly due to sheer numbers, problems started becoming apparent so the need for rules evolved.
Look Out! Arrow! Zzzzing! - We spend billions playing by corporate-card, by food-bank card, by military-card - in other countries. If we're so cash-strapped that we can't afford the immigrants, let's pull that money back, feed our own and feed the immigrants here where we can take care of them. Shoot, most of them would think Nevada is a fine place to live - they're not hard to please.
Arrow! Thwock-Boiiiiiing! - Canadians have been coming down here - with their companies - outbidding American contractors for many jobs, living & working here and spending a few bucks, then taking it all back home .. doing it for decades. Legal or Illegal - it has very similar impact on the economy as it relates to you and me.
Arrow!! Phfffft! - will mention this again - 12 million "illegal" immigrants times $5,000 one-time fee along with an admission of guilt and an "I'm sorry" in order to become a citizen equates to