The poor in America

[isabel]

Okay we were discussing this in another thread and getting off track there. So let's continue it here.

Many of the poor in this country are single parents with kids. We all think we make good choices when picking a spouse but things happen and marriages end.

How does a single parent with kids manage on one job and child care. I'm trying to not say they are mostly women...because I think there are a lot of fathers who are now raising their kids too.

But many single parents do so...without any help from their former spouse. As most of you know it takes two incomes for most of middle class folks to get by. Child care is really expensive.
I paid $500. a month for 10 days a month for three kids...so let's see...
that is $50. a day.
If I paid that for 20 days a month.
$1,000. a month for child care...and that is on the cheap side.
For afternoons ONLY for two kids (after school) and all day for my 3 yr. old. School funded programs. MORE ON SCHOOL VACATIONS.

But still...$1,000. for child care for a single parent.
Plus an appt. in Ca. (two bedroom) in the poorest part of town...$1,000. How much is left out of a paycheck?
Food, gas, Insurance, clothing, medical expenses...

Let's say the a person makes $10. an hour, that is above min. wage.

$10 x 40 hrs = $400. x 52 weeks a year = $20, 800. / 12 months. = $1,733.33 (GROSS)

$1,750. rounded up.
$1,000. rent
$1,000. child car
$400. food for 4 people

Total - $650. (in the neg.)

I would say this person is poor...by my standards. Living on the edge of complete poverty...one lost job away from the street.

As far as family planning. How many of us go into marriage thinking...well I should only have as many children as I can support, if my spouse leaves me. So many women put their careers on hold to raise children. So when Hubby leaves...They have no...useable resume...for the last 10-20 years of their lives. What college education they had is out of date.

So are these poor people, poor because they are lazy, uneducated, or what.

No they are poor by the roll of the dice in life.

Izzy

[PDXnative]

Using your $10 an hour job.... After subtracting taxes and all other deductions (about 1/3), you are left with $1155 a month.

So, lets say they they can get stuff cheaper and only have one child:

Rent for a basic 2 bedroom apartment $650
Childcare at an inhome childcare $500 (one child)

That leaves $5 a month for food, transportation and bills.

BTW, if you do not have a college education or specialized skills, $10 an hour is pretty good. And, even with college degrees, you still might be only able to make $10 an hour.

[Wyody]

If I may continue PDX, in the same vein:

Add the Car Insurance: it's due too. Have to pay by the month because never enough money to pay by the 6 months ... increasing the bill.
Some cities and states have Car Inspections and/or Emissions - plates are due. So is the Emmissions.
Have to take the kid past the clinic tomorrow - no insurance and child has a fever - the visit's only 10 bucks ... but gotta pay for the prescription - antibiotics aren't cheap.
Power Bill!! Remember the payment plan with the Power company!! One day late and you're history - gotta keep bucks tucked away in case the check doesn't come on time for the power bill.
Oh yeah - soccer cleats! Can't have the child looking poor all the time - kid needs cleats.
In the fridge, no food to eat. Not enough on sale this week. WIC bought the milk but the teenager goes through it fast. Got cheap bread somewhere but it all went bad.
Gotta have Toilet Paper!
And OWWW - Billy has a toothache again.
And the baby is fussing over their ears.
Oh, gotta fix the muffler before emissions. Brakes have to wait.

The Desperate live next door.

[Wyoming53]

A lot of times you learn to get by.

For instance, when I was an E-5 in the Navy, we had 5 kids. I found a Penny's store in San Diego that was old and I never saw very many cars in the lot. But, I went in. Come to find out, they were the liquidation store for all Penny's in Ca.

If a store had 3 refridgerators left and the new models come out, they'd send those 3 to this store. Same with shoes, jackets, all clothes.

I got our dinning room table there. It seats 8 chairs. Big thing. $149. No chairs. Used to get leather shoes for the kids for $3.

We got by, never went on welfare or assistance. But we got by.

[a1m1700]

Originally Posted by isabel

Okay we were discussing this in another thread and getting off track there. So let's continue it here.

Many of the poor in this country are single parents with kids. We all think we make good choices when picking a spouse but things happen and marriages end.

How does a single parent with kids manage on one job and child care. I'm trying to not say they are mostly women...because I think there are a lot of fathers who are now raising their kids too.

But many single parents do so...without any help from their former spouse. As most of you know it takes two incomes for most of middle class folks to get by. Child care is really expensive.
I paid $500. a month for 10 days a month for three kids...so let's see...
that is $50. a day.
If I paid that for 20 days a month.
$1,000. a month for child care...and that is on the cheap side.
For afternoons ONLY for two kids (after school) and all day for my 3 yr. old. School funded programs. MORE ON SCHOOL VACATIONS.

But still...$1,000. for child care for a single parent.
Plus an appt. in Ca. (two bedroom) in the poorest part of town...$1,000. How much is left out of a paycheck?
Food, gas, Insurance, clothing, medical expenses...

Let's say the a person makes $10. an hour, that is above min. wage.

$10 x 40 hrs = $400. x 52 weeks a year = $20, 800. / 12 months. = $1,733.33 (GROSS)

$1,750. rounded up.
$1,000. rent
$1,000. child car
$400. food for 4 people

Total - $650. (in the neg.)

I would say this person is poor...by my standards. Living on the edge of complete poverty...one lost job away from the street.

As far as family planning. How many of us go into marriage thinking...well I should only have as many children as I can support, if my spouse leaves me. So many women put their careers on hold to raise children. So when Hubby leaves...They have no...useable resume...for the last 10-20 years of their lives. What college education they had is out of date.

So are these poor people, poor because they are lazy, uneducated, or what.

No they are poor by the roll of the dice in life.

Izzy

I understand single parents who get divorced and then the dad becomes a dead beat. What about these women who aren't married and keep having kids from different daddies while they are on welfare? That is mostly what's going on out there.

Originally Posted by Wyoming53

A lot of times you learn to get by.

For instance, when I was an E-5 in the Navy, we had 5 kids. I found a Penny's store in San Diego that was old and I never saw very many cars in the lot. But, I went in. Come to find out, they were the liquidation store for all Penny's in Ca.

If a store had 3 refridgerators left and the new models come out, they'd send those 3 to this store. Same with shoes, jackets, all clothes.

I got our dinning room table there. It seats 8 chairs. Big thing. $149. No chairs. Used to get leather shoes for the kids for $3.

We got by, never went on welfare or assistance. But we got by.

Yeah we had 4 kids and we did what we had to do to get by, we managed.

Originally Posted by PDXnative

Using your $10 an hour job.... After subtracting taxes and all other deductions (about 1/3), you are left with $1155 a month.

So, lets say they they can get stuff cheaper and only have one child:

Rent for a basic 2 bedroom apartment $650
Childcare at an inhome childcare $500 (one child)

That leaves $5 a month for food, transportation and bills.

BTW, if you do not have a college education or specialized skills, $10 an hour is pretty good. And, even with college degrees, you still might be only able to make $10 an hour.

That's why education is important and family planning is essential.

Originally Posted by isabel

Okay we were discussing this in another thread and getting off track there. So let's continue it here.

Many of the poor in this country are single parents with kids. We all think we make good choices when picking a spouse but things happen and marriages end.

How does a single parent with kids manage on one job and child care. I'm trying to not say they are mostly women...because I think there are a lot of fathers who are now raising their kids too.

But many single parents do so...without any help from their former spouse. As most of you know it takes two incomes for most of middle class folks to get by. Child care is really expensive.
I paid $500. a month for 10 days a month for three kids...so let's see...
that is $50. a day.
If I paid that for 20 days a month.
$1,000. a month for child care...and that is on the cheap side.
For afternoons ONLY for two kids (after school) and all day for my 3 yr. old. School funded programs. MORE ON SCHOOL VACATIONS.

But still...$1,000. for child care for a single parent.
Plus an appt. in Ca. (two bedroom) in the poorest part of town...$1,000. How much is left out of a paycheck?
Food, gas, Insurance, clothing, medical expenses...

Let's say the a person makes $10. an hour, that is above min. wage.

$10 x 40 hrs = $400. x 52 weeks a year = $20, 800. / 12 months. = $1,733.33 (GROSS)

$1,750. rounded up.
$1,000. rent
$1,000. child car
$400. food for 4 people

Total - $650. (in the neg.)

I would say this person is poor...by my standards. Living on the edge of complete poverty...one lost job away from the street.

As far as family planning. How many of us go into marriage thinking...well I should only have as many children as I can support, if my spouse leaves me. So many women put their careers on hold to raise children. So when Hubby leaves...They have no...useable resume...for the last 10-20 years of their lives. What college education they had is out of date.

So are these poor people, poor because they are lazy, uneducated, or what.

No they are poor by the roll of the dice in life.

Izzy

I think there's more rolling in the hay then rolling the dice. Sorry but true. It is what it is. I'm not saying the other scenerio doesn't exist but the first sure as heck does.

[NHYRNUT]

Originally Posted by a1m1700

I understand single parents who get divorced and then the dad becomes a dead beat. What about these women who aren't married and keep having kids from different daddies while they are on welfare? That is mostly what's going on out there.

They are called Welfare scum. In NH they take away welfare after 2 years. Great way to control them. And they don't get more money for more kids.

[CandyApple]

Aw, let's kill all the rich people- they use way too many resources. Welfare folks aren't using up all of Earth's bounty on limousines, trips to the Bahamas, third cars and second homes, the rich are. In fact, lets kill ALL Americans- Americans use more resources than anybody, and all these other countries have to support their gluttony.

If Americans can't get by on their own resources, it's not up to the rest of the world to finance them, and I don't mean $- people can just print $. I mean, oil, shoes, happy meal toys, all that junk. NO MORE IMPORTS!!

When was the last time you (personally) grew your own crops? :P

[isabel]

SHOW THE FACTS where most single parents in this country today are unwed mothers. Show the facts... that say families at some point in their marriage couldn't afford the kids they had.

Now what would happen if your husband lost his job today. Could you afford the child/children you have now? If he left you, could you afford the child you have. Someone might ask then where was your family planning? Are you an unwed mother because you're a single parent.

I want to SEE the facts and...want folks to think about walking in someone else's shoes. OR what it would be like to be on the other side of the fence...if hard times came your way. How does the saying go "But for the grace of god..."

Anyway. I just feel it is to easy to throw comments out there without anything to back them up. Let's research what is being said here. Maybe some of it is fact...But I want to see the charts and the reference to the writer of the info.

Where is Rod Farley when you need him?

Izzy

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by CandyApple

When was the last time you (personally) grew your own crops? :P

We grow our own "crops" every year. Garlic, tomatos, cucumbers, peas, beans, pumpkins, apples, lettuce, and grapes. All organic!!! And we only have a 5000 sqft lot in urban Portland. We even make our own beer and try to buy locally.

[a1m1700]

Originally Posted by CandyApple

Aw, let's kill all the rich people- they use way too many resources. Welfare folks aren't using up all of Earth's bounty on limousines, trips to the Bahamas, third cars and second homes, the rich are. In fact, lets kill ALL Americans- Americans use more resources than anybody, and all these other countries have to support their gluttony.

If Americans can't get by on their own resources, it's not up to the rest of the world to finance them, and I don't mean $- people can just print $. I mean, oil, shoes, happy meal toys, all that junk. NO MORE IMPORTS!!

When was the last time you (personally) grew your own crops? :P

We grew some veggies about 10 years ago, I'm thinking we may give it another shot when we move to our new house.

[kimbercuddles]

Originally Posted by PDXnative

We grow our own "crops" every year. Garlic, tomatos, cucumbers, peas, beans, pumpkins, apples, lettuce, and grapes. All organic!!! And we only have a 5000 sqft lot in urban Portland. We even make our own beer and try to buy locally.

If you are able to, this is definitely the best way to go...regarding food. Probably 80% of Americans would also be much healthier and hence, less visits to the doctor's office. I need to figure out how to grow veggies and fruits in sand...sigh.

You all bring up very good points, in my opinion. I know that one way we were able to make ends meet was to actually live in a bigger house with another family. The rent was much less and we all pitched in for almost everything. There was a lack of privacy, at times, but it was worth it to be able to make ends meet. You do what you have to do. It also helps to be close to family. Some people I know actually juggle childcare and it works very well in some situations.

Here is what really irritates me: our friend (Tim) is just recently divorced and has no children. He was ordered to pay $1100 per month to his ex-wife for ALIMONY. She has the house and her parents live with her there. That's absolutely insane. How does that even happen? She used to make a whole bundle of money before she was married. She quit and now is used to living a certain lifestyle and Tim must pay for it.

If I knew HALF of what I know now, I would be a lot better off, financially. I just wanted to be done with my divorce and ended up almost $50,000 in debt. Hindsight is definitely 20/20!

[a1m1700]

Originally Posted by isabel

SHOW THE FACTS where most single parents in this country today are unwed mothers. Show the facts... that say families at some point in their marriage couldn't afford the kids they had.

Now what would happen if your husband lost his job today. Could you afford the child/children you have now? If he left you, could you afford the child you have. Someone might ask then where was your family planning? Are you an unwed mother because you're a single parent.

I want to SEE the facts and...want folks to think about walking in someone else's shoes. OR what it would be like to be on the other side of the fence...if hard times came your way. How does the saying go "But for the grace of god..."

Anyway. I just feel it is to easy to throw comments out there without anything to back them up. Let's research what is being said here. Maybe some of it is fact...But I want to see the charts and the reference to the writer of the info.

Where is Rod Farley when you need him?

Izzy

My kids are older, half live on their own and the other half live with me but work. But I have gone through tough times in my life with 4 kiddos. We married young and we didn't plan for squat. We were very foolish and I don't think anyone should pay for our stupidy. We did whatever we had to do to support the 4 of them.

The welfare system in this country consist of druggies, crack heads, drunks and young women with many kids from different fathers. You have some families that didn't plan well and lose a job but most of those people are resilient and will use the system for a hand up not a hand out.

What was the deal in New Orleans? Why were their so many people on government assistance over there?

[Wyoming53]

Originally Posted by kimbercuddles

If you are able to, this is definitely the best way to go...regarding food. Probably 80% of Americans would also be much healthier and hence, less visits to the doctor's office. I need to figure out how to grow veggies and fruits in sand...sigh.

You all bring up very good points, in my opinion. I know that one way we were able to make ends meet was to actually live in a bigger house with another family. The rent was much less and we all pitched in for almost everything. There was a lack of privacy, at times, but it was worth it to be able to make ends meet. You do what you have to do. It also helps to be close to family. Some people I know actually juggle childcare and it works very well in some situations.

Here is what really irritates me: our friend (Tim) is just recently divorced and has no children. He was ordered to pay $1100 per month to his ex-wife for ALIMONY. She has the house and her parents live with her there. That's absolutely insane. How does that even happen? She used to make a whole bundle of money before she was married. She quit and now is used to living a certain lifestyle and Tim must pay for it.

If I knew HALF of what I know now, I would be a lot better off, financially. I just wanted to be done with my divorce and ended up almost $50,000 in debt. Hindsight is definitely 20/20!

I'm divorced and wonder one thing. Do you really want to penalize them that way, or do you want to make sure of life support for your younguns? I say that because when I was divorced, I paid for health insurance. I paid child support, I paid insurance, and she wanted more. I showed receipts showing where she had full coverage insurance, plus I paid a reasonable sum to feed her. This was back in the 70's. I paid, not only insurance, but $300 a month. She asked for more. Think about it. I did what I could. But she wanted to party and "make" more money.

Hey, I did what I could, daughter did ok.

[a1m1700]

Originally Posted by isabel

SHOW THE FACTS where most single parents in this country today are unwed mothers. Show the facts... that say families at some point in their marriage couldn't afford the kids they had.

Now what would happen if your husband lost his job today. Could you afford the child/children you have now? If he left you, could you afford the child you have. Someone might ask then where was your family planning? Are you an unwed mother because you're a single parent.

I want to SEE the facts and...want folks to think about walking in someone else's shoes. OR what it would be like to be on the other side of the fence...if hard times came your way. How does the saying go "But for the grace of god..."

Anyway. I just feel it is to easy to throw comments out there without anything to back them up. Let's research what is being said here. Maybe some of it is fact...But I want to see the charts and the reference to the writer of the info.

Where is Rod Farley when you need him?

Izzy

Yeah where is Rod Farley? He'd probably say the unemployement rate in this country is up and everyone is losing their jobs.

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by a1m1700

My kids are older, half live on their own and the other half live with me but work. But I have gone through tough times in my life with 4 kiddos. We married young and we didn't plan for squat. We were very foolish and I don't think anyone should pay for our stupidy. We did whatever we had to do to support the 4 of them.

The welfare system in this country consist of druggies, crack heads, drunks and young women with many kids from different fathers. You have some families that didn't plan well and lose a job but most of those people are resilient and will use the system for a hand up not a hand out.

What was the deal in New Orleans? Why were their so many people on government assistance over there?

That is why we need welfare reform. We need to just start over, and education is the key to getting people better paying jobs.

[Wyoming53]

Originally Posted by PDXnative

That is why we need welfare reform. We need to just start over, and education is the key to getting people better paying jobs.

Sorry, I'm just not sure where welfare reform and education comes in contact. You want to go to college, apple for a student load, just like you did. Just don't expect the state to give you one because you are deprived.

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by Wyoming53

Sorry, I'm just not sure where welfare reform and education comes in contact. You want to go to college, apple for a student load, just like you did. Just don't expect the state to give you one because you are deprived.

Why are people on welfare? Because they do not make enough money to survive.

How do they make more money? Get a better paying job.

How do you get a better paying job? Get more education.

It is a simple solution, but the current situation is to just to keep handing out checks and food stamps. BANDAID!!!!

[kimbercuddles]

Originally Posted by a1m1700

My kids are older, half live on their own and the other half live with me but work. But I have gone through tough times in my life with 4 kiddos. We married young and we didn't plan for squat. We were very foolish and I don't think anyone should pay for our stupidy. We did whatever we had to do to support the 4 of them.

The welfare system in this country consist of druggies, crack heads, drunks and young women with many kids from different fathers. You have some families that didn't plan well and lose a job but most of those people are resilient and will use the system for a hand up not a hand out.

What was the deal in New Orleans? Why were their so many people on government assistance over there?

Louisiana is like a separate country. The state government is so corrupt and contrary to popular belief, it's not a cheap place to live. From what I've seen, New Orleans/Baton Rouge is probably one of the best examples of people expecting the government to take care of them. I can't generalize and say all of them, but an awful lot of them.

When we were there, they had a huge job fair in which most of the jobs paid about $13-$15 per hour. No experience necessary. This job fair was held about 6 to 8 months after Katrina. Less than a handful of people showed up. But they'll easily gripe about how unfair it is and everything is racially motivated. I hate to say this, but my views changed a little bit after living in Baton Rouge.

Originally Posted by PDXnative

Why are people on welfare? Because they do not make enough money to survive.

How do they make more money? Get a better paying job.

How do you get a better paying job? Get more education.

It is a simple solution, but the current situation is to just to keep handing out checks and food stamps. BANDAID!!!!

I agree with the first statement. But there are different reasons for not making enough money to survive...some are legitimate, some are very pathetic.

Didn't we already go through a so-called welfare makeover with Clinton?

[a1m1700]

Originally Posted by NHYRNUT

They are called Welfare scum. In NH they take away welfare after 2 years. Great way to control them. And they don't get more money for more kids.

Wow really? 2 years? I guess that's better than ongoing and endless reproducing. I wish other states would adapt that.

[Wyoming53]

Originally Posted by PDXnative

Why are people on welfare? Because they do not make enough money to survive.

How do they make more money? Get a better paying job.

How do you get a better paying job? Get more education.

It is a simple solution, but the current situation is to just to keep handing out checks and food stamps. BANDAID!!!!

You are correct in every asspect. But, how does one get a better education without some help?

You can hand out bandaids, but limit them. You want an expentant mother, who's spouse has suddenly died, to just expect she has an education. Ain't going to happen. She has to go to school to better her chances. But who pays the bills until she does? We got to give her a chance. Oh crap. That's coming from a Republican. Please don't chastise me for that. hahahahahahahaha

[kimbercuddles]

Originally Posted by Wyoming53

I'm divorced and wonder one thing. Do you really want to penalize them that way, or do you want to make sure of life support for your younguns? I say that because when I was divorced, I paid for health insurance. I paid child support, I paid insurance, and she wanted more. I showed receipts showing where she had full coverage insurance, plus I paid a reasonable sum to feed her. This was back in the 70's. I paid, not only insurance, but $300 a month. She asked for more. Think about it. I did what I could. But she wanted to party and "make" more money.

Hey, I did what I could, daughter did ok.

I agree, Wyoming. You did a noble thing, even if it was difficult. If I wanted to be cruel and insensitive, I could have taken my ex for all he was worth. I'm glad I didn't do that, but I wish I would have asked for SOMETHING!! I even paid for the divorce. I know a lot of women who have royally screwed their ex-spouses!

Originally Posted by Wyoming53

You are correct in every asspect. But, how does one get a better education without some help?

You can hand out bandaids, but limit them. You want an expentant mother, who's spouse has suddenly died, to just expect she has an education. Ain't going to happen. She has to go to school to better her chances. But who pays the bills until she does? We got to give her a chance. Oh crap. That's coming from a Republican. Please don't chastise me for that. hahahahahahahaha

I think most Republicans would agree with you. I do. No chastization for you, dude.

[a1m1700]

Originally Posted by PDXnative

That is why we need welfare reform. We need to just start over, and education is the key to getting people better paying jobs.

Now their is the PDX I know, I agree education is key. When someone gets and education it's enpowering. More needs to be done in these inter-city neighborhoods. Instead of handing out checks and not looking twice at the situation is wrong. These people need to be accountable for themselves. When a single mother comes every 9 months to their local welfare office to apply more money for a new mouth to feed, why aren't these social workers asking questions? Why is someone on the system allowed to have more children? It starts with a common education and then moves up to a college education.

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by Wyoming53

You are correct in every asspect. But, how does one get a better education without some help?

You can hand out bandaids, but limit them. You want an expentant mother, who's spouse has suddenly died, to just expect she has an education. Ain't going to happen. She has to go to school to better her chances. But who pays the bills until she does? We got to give her a chance. Oh crap. That's coming from a Republican. Please don't chastise me for that. hahahahahahahaha

Hand out band-aids contingent on them staying in school and working towards a degree or some specialized program that will get them a good paying job. If they get bad grades, or drop out.... back to the projects!!!! After all, the world needs drug dealers and prostitutes too