Politics and Illegal Immigration

[Torrey]

Figured I might as well stick my neck out and start a thread. Didn't see a regular thread on the main board.

[isabel]

Oh, this subject will get at least a few members going:) The key word here is Illegal. Some folks go straight to the Immigration part. I like to remind folks that we all immigrated here at some point in our family tree.

I see immigration as a normal process of American life. I like all the diversity. Keeps things real.

Welcome to the site Torrey. I think you will like the folks here.

Izzy

[Torrey]

I like to make myself clear on Immigration. I have no problems with a person applying and going through our system of checks and balances to come here to our country legally. However, I have a BIG problem with people coming here ILLEGALLY.

For instance, my wifes sister is NOT an American citizen. She was born and raised in Mexico (and still lives there), and my wife did the paperwork for her to eventually come to the USA legally. That process has taken 10 years. Her sister is a good person of high moral character, already speaks English, and has a good paying job as a modeling manager (she manages models for an agency. She used to be a model herself). Her husband works for DuPont, and they would make great US Citizens.

There is a division in the kind of people you have in Mexico. You can clearly see it if you go over there for any length of time - the ones who don't have anything, and do not have any ambition to ever do anything regardless of how much one might try to 'help' them. Then there are the ambitious ones who get up and work hard, get an education and become productive people and don't have their hand out. The first type are the kind we get jumping our borders. Those type see 'free' and they're all over it like flies on crap. Those kind are the same the world over, we even have them here (white trash, ghetto blacks etc). What I am opposed to, is bringing even MORE trash into our country. We have enough of our own non-productive trash to begin with, we don't need the trash from another country. The President of Mexico encourages the border jumping because it's his way of getting rid of Mexicos trash!

[T.S.]

Illegal aliens make me rather angry after spending many hours filling out paperwork, paying over $1000 in fees, and waiting over a year to get my own wife into the country.

[Wyody]

I was reading above regarding those in Mexico who "do nothing". That they are the ones who want to fence-hop first.

I have no argument with this statement as it reads - I've seen such folks down there ... but it does bring to mind a slightly different scenario:
}Mexico - 1950. Or 1960. Or 1970. Mexico - 1900. Or 1920. And just not to leave it out ... 1930. Or 1940. Or 2000.
Little girl and Little Boy. They get home from school. The little girl goes straight for the sewing maching while Mama starts dinner. Little boy goes straight to the yard to feed animals then heads straight for a workbench in the house with his knife to cut leather. Little girl sews the leather into jacket-fringe. Mama puts the jacket together that night after the children are asleep. They had to buy the jacket material - material for many jackets. They had to scrimp for the used sewing machine. Uncle Pedro works at the slaughterhouse and makes deals to get some of the hides - then he tans them by hand - they take more than a month each and many, many back-breaking hours.
Mama goes to town the next day. Kids fed and in school. She wishes she had a storefront but can't afford one so, she sells what jackets and purses to the store-owners that they will buy and tries to sell the rest on the streets.
The tourists - mostly white, fat Americans - like the looks of her goods. Some won't buy off the street - only from the stores where they trust the goods ... the same goods she's holding up now. A few tourists will buy - they look it over - flawless, exceptional work. They dicker ... and dicker ... and dicker ... and walk away with a smile on their face and a jacket over their shoulder. Paid $20 for it. Took days to make and the effort of at least 4 people. Mama had to make sure she had grocery money - sure didn't get much from the shops ... many American owned ... or better put, backed by Americans.
By now, we've all seen this same scenario played out in a few different formats - in the movies.
In Mexico border-towns, this is life.
They moved to the city for the same reasons we do. Supposed to be more and better jobs there. Supposed to be "un-gouged" housing there. A lot is "supposed to be"... but it ain't.
My point? Research the 1910 Fruit Empire that American companies built from the blood of South Americans. Research the early push into SW America - including Texas - the "why" we did it ... and the "how".
Perhaps those folks would be poor even if we had not taken their land from them. Perhaps they would be poor even if we (in general) had not spent a century down there cramming our dollar-bills in their pocket for their $50 product.
And perhaps there will always be "do-nothings" -
And there will always be those who prefer the simpler life.
And there will always be those who subjugate other people and treat them like dirt with no respect for life - and this is what many of our American neighbors and friends and relatives have done.
The Mexican people are not completely to blame for their circumstance.
Peace

[Torrey]

They are not to blame for their own circumstances? How do you figure? We didn't force that person to sell us anything at a cut rate did we? Also, have you been to Mexico lately? The prices on everything are either the same, or HIGHER than they are here.

[NHYRNUT]

Goto disagree with this one as well. We bought that land from Mexico we didn't take it. Texas we tried but failed. This is why the Texan flag flies at the same hight as the countries flag. Texas joined by treaty. And at the time Texas was not part of Mexico, it was it's own Severn nation. Actually I believe, and I am sure someone knows the answer to this. So I don't have to look it up. But One , And I believe only one president has ever been president of the U.S.A. and another country. That president was the president of what ever Texas was called at that time.

But there where many presidents before washington as well. Something they forget to mention in history class. here is a list

The following men served as the President of the First Continental Congress:

Peyton Randolph (September 5, 1774 – October 21, 1774) and
Henry Middleton (October 22, 1774 – October 26, 1774)
The following men served as the President of the Second Continental Congress:

Peyton Randolph (May 10, 1775 – May 23, 1775)
John Hancock (May 24, 1775 – October 31, 1777)
Henry Laurens (November 1, 1777 – December 9, 1778)
John Jay (December 10, 1778 – September 27, 1779)
Samuel Huntington (September 28, 1779 – March 1, 1781)[1]
The following men served as President of the United States in Congress Assembled:

Samuel Huntington (March 1, 1781[2] – July 9, 1781)
Thomas McKean (July 10, 1781 – November 4, 1781)[3]
John Hanson (November 5, 1781 – November 3, 1782)
Elias Boudinot (November 4, 1782 – November 2, 1783)
Thomas Mifflin (November 3, 1783 – October 31, 1784)
Richard Henry Lee (November 30, 1784 – November 6, 1785)
John Hancock (November 23, 1785 – June 5, 1786) Due to Hancock's failing health the following two people acted as president in his stead:[1]
David Ramsay (November 23, 1785 – May 12, 1786)
Nathaniel Gorham (May 15, 1786 – June 5, 1786)
Nathaniel Gorham (June 6, 1786 – November 5, 1786)
Arthur St. Clair (February 2, 1787 – November 4, 1787)
Cyrus Griffin (January 22, 1788 – November 2, 1788)

[Wyody]

Egad, forcing me to put on my "remembery-cap". Life is hard.
On the way to California, YR, we pretty much took the New Mexico Territory (one of my ggguncles was a Territorial Governor of the NM Terr - died of an opium-overdose) but that was not a big deal - what we took along the way was whole towns from the Mexican folks. Like the Native Americans the first couple years of the 1620's, all they could do was sit and scratch their heads in disbelief. By the time the Mexican Gov't could get that far north to see what was going on, it was no longer worth their resources to fight for it - they would've been massacred - so, they "allowed" it to be bought. I might be in disrembrance of the particulars but that's the basic story. Maybe why they were later so ferocious at sites like ... say ... the Alamo.
Nice post with the founding-fathers thing too - something I always keep in mind.

Torrey - ... looks like you didn't pick up on the history there. Yes, we did force them to sell to us at cut-rate! We've done that all over the world for centuries. Has a little bit to do with why so many countries and peoples hate America. The English did it first - can blame them if we want - but we kept doing it. Probably still doing it. Our Government does not keep us privy to all their goings-on. Heck, half of the Government doesn't know it!
Yes - prices in Tijuana and Juarez have soared - that comes from American backers ... and maybe just some good ol' fashioned American capitalism finally sinking in to those sunburnt brains down there ... but to answer honestly - no, haven't been there in some time. Haven't been south of L.A. for a couple of decades. Have been down out of Brownsville since then though.



Actually Torrey, allow me to rephrase some of what I'm saying about the U.S. dissing Mexican people as I'm mixing a government-rant with a "greedy-people" rant and my little point on this began as a narrative on greedy, disrespectful people - and they're everywhere I suppose - not just in America - but it just so happens that it was our touristas who made a habit and even a regular forray into Mexico to score cheap deals ... regardless of the work that was put into the product.
Your statement goes something like "Well, they didn't have to sell to the tourists that cheap - so it's their own fault".
My statement in response is: "They had the choice of taking the insulting offer and guaranteeing the kids would have a meal and clean clothes tomorrow - or turning it down and facing the alternative"
Perhaps you and I disagree on the use of the word "force" - but to me, this is a forced issue.
I'll use my "government" rant another time.

[Music Junkie]

Originally Posted by isabel

Oh, this subject will get at least a few members going:) The key word here is Illegal. Some folks go straight to the Immigration part. I like to remind folks that we all immigrated here at some point in our family tree.

I see immigration as a normal process of American life. I like all the diversity. Keeps things real.

Izzy

I think the operative word would be ILLEGAL. I have no problem with legal immigration, but I also think we should be taking a drastic cut in the amount if immigrants we take from third world nations and the uneducated. They do nothing for our country and we end up supporting them.

I like diversity also. I do not like multiculturism pushed on me and my family though and I think this is what the major problem is in this country. There is nothing wrong with having some diversity but there is something drastically wrong with maing this country into what the immigrants left in the first place. We are becoming a Latin American nation and that is not what this country is all about at all.

[Wyody]

I'm eating Mexican tonight.
Chomp.
Chomp, Chomp, Chomp.
Tequila!!

[catfish]

Originally Posted by Torrey

Figured I might as well stick my neck out and start a thread. Didn't see a regular thread on the main board.

Close the borders and close the borders now, Deport them and deport every one of them now. Just do it! Save America

[Wyody]

I'm still in favor of sending the white people back where they came from ... except too many of them have been born here now for that to even be feasible.
But dang it all, they act like they own the place! They still haven't even paid their rent from 400 years ago!!
If they'd just learn a little common respect, it'd be much better ... and if they would ever realize that the Copper and Brown people were here first! And had it settled. And were doing just fine without them! Now, they want to close their borders?
Well, shucks, I guess I'll just have to agree with them ... on principle.

[PDXnative]

Deporting illegals does nothing to "Punish" them, which they should be punished as they have committed a crime. I feel the best form of "punishment" would be to force them into hard labor, say picking crops, and then after one year of imprisonment and hard labor deport them back to their country of Origin.

If a US citizen entered a Country illegally, they could, and probably would for some countries, lock us up for years.....

[Torrey]

Originally Posted by PDXnative

Deporting illegals does nothing to "Punish" them, which they should be punished as they have committed a crime. I feel the best form of "punishment" would be to force them into hard labor, say picking crops, and then after one year of imprisonment and hard labor deport them back to their country of Origin.

If a US citizen entered a Country illegally, they could, and probably would for some countries, lock us up for years.....

That's a great idea. It would really make them think before jumping the fence again... Then tell them the next time they are caught, there will be more severe punishment.

[PDXnative]

The ironic thing is, people who get caught with a small amount of drugs can get sentenced to many years in prison. Yet, people who sneak into our country illegally and are a potential threat to National Security are just given a free ticket south. The "justice" and priorities in this Country are a joke!!!!

Originally Posted by Torrey

That's a great idea. It would really make them think before jumping the fence again... Then tell them the next time they are caught, there will be more severe punishment.

[Wyoming53]

I did a project down in Reynosa Mexico. But we stayed in McAllen Texas and drop across every day.

You drive across the bridge that goes over the Rio Grand and stop at the Mexico customs and immegration check point. Once you get through, you go about a quarter mile and cross another river.

A Mexico coyote would bring up a bunch and stop at the cannal and say, ok pay me. Then I'll stand watch while you guys swim across. So they'd pay him and he'd act like he was watching for border patrol. They'd swim across, wave at him and proceed North. Only they were still in Mexico. Wrong river.