Civil war

[Panterro]

Do you see a civil war coming?

I see the country becoming more and more divided, angry, and fed up?

[Panterro]

If not a civil war how about a Revolution?

[T.S.]

If the north and south split, I am going with the north.

[the dufferz]

Great.

We will have Canada, North USA, North Mexico and Mexico

[Wyody]

Uh, maybe better draw another line.
After all, do we, here in the NorthWest, really want those Easterners bringing all that "real world" stuff over here??

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Panterro

Do you see a civil war coming?

I see the country becoming more and more divided, angry, and fed up?

I fear that our country has grown too large to sponsor a proper "Revolution" or "Civil War". There are too many sides ... and no battlefield! Where would we fight? In the middle? In Kansas?
It's too bad too - 'cause I really like the smell of Revolution ... but I think it would be the wrong word. After all, most of us - whether we agree on many things or not - most of us want to get back to the country that we think is outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights - in the Declaration of Independence ... so, we wouldn't be revolting, we'd be pursuing more a plan of "Police Action" to take our country back, wouldn't we?
And we're divided too many different ways as well. The French-derived want to secede from English derived Canada. Parts of the Great Lakes States want to form their own state. Texas doesn't want or need any other states. Montana refuses to accept the notion that there even are other states. California wants Rocky Mountain's water. Rocky Mountains wants California's Ocean.
Didn't mean to ramble - but I've often wondered if we haven't gotten too big to take ourself out!

[Panterro]

I have heard talk of succession around the water cooler.. who knows. I think that could happen.

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Panterro

I have heard talk of succession around the water cooler.. who knows. I think that could happen.

I assume you're speaking regarding Texas?
What an interesting situation Texas is in. I have friends in Texas and was involved with, of all things, a Republican think-tank full primarily of Texans ... and there is a lot to learn for someone not from Texas.
However, it could be one of the only states that could survive a secession.
And then, it certainly takes a lot of financial load off of the U.S. if Texas becomes solely responsible for their southern border.
Something I don't know - and you might know, Pan - of the states surrounding Texas, how many of them would secede with Texas ... and ... would Texas allow Oklahoma to secede with them?

[Panterro]

Well I think if it happened.. Texas, New Mexico and Arizonian would go, and Oklahoma fer sure.. maybe even Arkansas. Maybe not all together but they would all go. I think Nevada and Arizona, and maybe Utah would form one new Union. Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas for sure, with New Mexico as a possibility for either of the two choices so far. I know for a fact Washington, Oregon, and Idaho would make a pact as well.. And they would have nothing to do with California. I think we would just give it to Mexico and be done with it.

But who knows.. I just know there is a lot of talk here and there, and people are angry and feel they are not being represented any longer. Now if they just rise up instead of being lazy.. and I guess the right leader would have to rise up as well.. someone people would rally behind.

[Wyody]

Seems that I recall LA, MS, AL and the U.P. of Florida all being "willing" to go along with Texas ... you're right that the talk has been there for years. I doubt Utah would go with anybody except Utah ... although I'm sure they'd want all of their original "Bonneville" holdings back - which included all or bits of NM, AZ, CA, NV, ID, WY.
A main concern I would have - were Texas actually going to secede - would be ... what about El Paso? And San Antonio? And Amarillo? So much of Texas' population is in either East Texas or more specifically, around Houston, Dallas and Austin ... and it's a long, long ways to Amarillo or San Antone - let alone El Paso. Think they would get a fair shake?
I say "Save Northern California". I don't know what to do with the south - that's the only decent swimming on the west coast! I always figured we'd take over the Baja someday - surprised to see it going the other way.
Thanks for your take on things. Holla when the day comes!

[Torrey]

Civil War, Revolution, whatever. I see American eventually taking their actions to the streets in armed groups if our government doesn't do as we ask and rid our country of illegal immigrants, and straighten themselves out. We might just have to wipe our government clean and start fresh while we are at it.

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Torrey

Civil War, Revolution, whatever. I see American eventually taking their actions to the streets in armed groups if our government doesn't do as we ask and rid our country of illegal immigrants, and straighten themselves out. We might just have to wipe our government clean and start fresh while we are at it.

The "cleansing" has been going on for decades - but not necessarily against "illegals". Maybe depends on where you are. In Salt Lake, for example, locals have been on CB-assisted "Que Pasa Patrols" since the late 70's! More Islanders moved in after that so I suppose the focus drifted. Then, more Asians moved in. It's not a situation I'm in favor of; I mean, I support the right to keep and bear arms ... but I know a bunch of people I wouldn't want armed! They're all around me!
Now, wiping the government clean ... that's a very wide wish! I'm curious if you have something brand-new to propose or if you are only suggesting that we go "back to our Founding Fathers" and make it right from there?

[Music Junkie]

Since we live in Las Cruces and I know quite a bit about El Paso, I can tell you that they would be more than happy to be with Mexico, just as Las Cruces would.

[Panterro]

I live in El Paso, and I don't want to be part of Mexico, and I don't think most of the Mexican born Americans would want to be either.

El Paso if left up to Texas would get the short end of the stick. But since Washington has take'in such a liking to us, views in Austin are changing.

I mean no disrespect by this.. But El Paso has been known as the Wetback side of Texas for years.. thats how it is thought of and that is how it is treated. El Paso also being out all by its self, alone in this big state would mean its doom. I think El Paso would rather be part of New Mexico, take the reigns from Santa Fe and be the State Capitol... and lead the state from the river.

Sometimes I wish El Paso was in NM, I think we would get a bit more respect, and not feel so isolated.

[deeptrance]

In response to the original question: No, we're not heading for civil war.

I don't see any signs of that. If you study the history of the USA you will find that the times we're living in are less contentious than they have been during many other phases of our nation's development. I think our perception of the divisiveness and rage is a product of 3 factors:

1. mass media gets better ratings by playing to people's hysteria, so they exaggerate every problem

2. our memories are short and humans always tend to believe that the world is about to end

3. WWII produced an unprecedented phase of unity within the USA, yet even in the midst of the unity created by uniting against Hitler and then the subsequent Cold War, many political and cultural conflicts were brewing. I'm old enough to remember the riots of the late 1960s and I truly believed there was going to be a revolution. But only a few years after the Jefferson Airplane sang "Hey, we're marching to the sea, gotta revolution, got to revolution" they had changed their name to the Jefferson Starship and pumping out whiny "love ballads."

People always think the end is near. It's always possible that the end is near because we can't predict anything with much accuracy, but one thing that seems fairly certain is that the USA is a comfortable materialistic consumer culture and the apparent hostility between different factions is greatly exaggerated on web forums, radio talk shows, and cable news.