Julie No Longer My Man

[Panterro]

I have been watching the YouTube/CNN Republican debate on CNN. Rudy is no longer my man.. he just didn't impress me, and his answered were forced.

McCain gained more of my support. He was relaxed, and his answers seemed to come easy. He was short and to the point.. and did not over express his point. When a Candidate talks and talks.. they don't seem to have a clue, and make me think they are calling me stupid.

And McCain did not seem to over state his resume, as most of the other candidates did. I have to say McCain really impressed me tonight.

I was also impressed by Duncan Hunter... I think thats the guys name.. he was next to McCain.

[Wyody]

Sorry I missed the debate. (wife got new movies {live free-die hard). Nearly time to start paying attention.
But I would like to offer, Pan - that McCain also has more experience at this particular period of campaigning - as do people like Joe Biden.
These fellows are being told a million things by their managers/teams/parties/press/phone-callers/e-mailers ... you name it - so, now is when we start looking for who seems to feel the most comfortable with themselves. Thing is, you can't trust what you see 'cause the coolest simply have more experience at losing and some others are simply being coached to "stay the course".
Which leaves us, of course, hoodwinked one way or the other!

[Wyody]

I got a chance to watch some of the out-takes from the debate and to read a couple of stories.
Looks like the Republicans have nobody.
I would be hard-put to remember just how G.W. Bush became the front-runner back in 1999/2000. I think I remember that I was surprised that he rose to the fore.
I gotta say though, here's my quick take on it, Pan.
-Uncle Gulie is a fairly decent guy - if we weren't all modern and stuff then, he might win just 'cause he looks like someone with a lap our children would love.
-Fred Who? Anybody else ever have a dumb roommate? Would you elect them president?
-Ru Paul .... seriously, America needs to step into the future.
-Huck: I know it's not quite right to allow a visual impression of someone to factor in the decision ... but doesn't he look like the fellow that drove the hearse to the cemetery? (while Paul looks like the load?)
-Mitt Romney: First, what kind of name is Mitt? Second - here is our Big Brother. I grew up without one but can still remember my older brother punching me in the chest as a toddler. We've been complaining for decades now about "Big Brother" watching us and digging into our lives without justification. Mitt looks the part. If we really thought our big brother could even rig the lottery in our favor then, maybe.
For now, Mitt is merely a New Englander with great hair - and I'll never get over the "Mormon" card with him.
-John McCain: Sorry Pan. I just don't see it. He's just the pass-around guy for "Spank-Night"... pass-around guy for "Spank-Night" ... pass-around guy for "Spank-Night" ... pass-around guy for ... Is this really the best Arizona has to offer?
Don't know who I missed - but chances are, if I missed them then neither you nor I will miss them when they're gone.
Time's running out - I think the Republicans need to look harder and find a candidate somewhere ... QUICK!
It's nearly unfathomable for me to imagine - but with the current appearance of the Democratic slate, the Republicans can win this thing if they can only find a candidate.

[Wyody]

A couple hours later - I've been sitting here watching the replays - I'm confident with what I said above. Must apologize for leaving out Incredo.
Y'know how Dan Rather always tried to emulate his predecessor Walter Cronkite?
Doesn't Incredo look like he's trying to emulate Ronald Reagan AND Walter Cronkite?
Remind me sometime and I can analogize these guys to a church setting ... most of us have been to church before, haven't we?

[Panterro]

The More I read about Duncan Hunter, the more I like him. He was also a Vietnam Vet, with the 173rd Airborne. There are a few things he and I don't agree on, but his over all outlook is like mine. I also loved the answer he gave about other countries not liking us.

Here he is from Last night.. I like this guy. He is seems honest to me.. I also like his answers. He has my vote.

Duncan Hunter at YouTube CNN Debate

Duncan Hunter at YouTube CNN Debate

I love his answer on Gun Laws & Second Admenment, Immigration.. And his answer on relations with other countries, and his answer on gays in the military.

[Panterro]

Originally Posted by Wyody

Sorry I missed the debate. (wife got new movies {live free-die hard). Nearly time to start paying attention.

Thats the movie we rented too. Kinda lame.. but action packed.

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Panterro

Thats the movie we rented too. Kinda lame.. but action packed.

Once you reach a certain age, seeing the "old guy" still kickin' butt makes the movie a lot better.
Who on Earth is Duncan Hunter? Didn't see him on stage. Never heard of him. Oh - and can't get your vid to work.

*I just googled him up - I do remember seeing him on stage ... but thought he was Incredo ... sorry - threw me there. They look a bit alike.

[Panterro]

Try this link

Duncan Hunter at YouTube CNN Debate

Duncan Hunter at YouTube CNN Debate

And here is his site: http://www.gohunter08.com/

[Wyody]

I got it to play off of the site-link. I just downloaded Foxfire yesterday and had to install a plug-in to try it off this site ... but it still wouldn't work. I'll get it figured out here in a few days I hope.
I dunno Pan - maybe you'd better grab your pea-coat and we'll set off together to find a candidate 'cause it's looking like yet another "settle-for" election.
I've said it before ... and I don't like it ... but I'm starting to understand why some folks liked Reagan. Tall, hairy, cowboy, old-school and knew how to act.

[Panterro]

Well if it came down to Duncan and Hillery, Id vote Duncan.. anyone else and Billery, I would vote Billery, I mean Hillery. Hey It would be the fastest way to get rid of her.. is to elect her to office. She would be dead by the end of Year 2.

But yeah, I agree.. where have all the leaders gone?

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Panterro

Well if it came down to Duncan and Hillery, Id vote Duncan.. anyone else and Billery, I would vote Billery, I mean Hillery. Hey It would be the fastest way to get rid of her.. is to elect her to office. She would be dead by the end of Year 2.

But yeah, I agree.. where have all the leaders gone?

I'm not positive I'm all that dead-set against her ... although I want to be. I have doubts that she would be targeted. I have doubts that even Obama would be targeted ... although I know better than to say so.
I brought this up once before - don't think I'm right - but I still wonder if, as we age, we just aren't so easy to hoodwink anymore and so, we only fall into the flag-waving, pennant-stroking, hero-hailing behavior when we're young and changing the world. Life has a way of simplifying itself as we go along and it seems easier to do things we might not have done before - like, bragging up our military experience; our work experience; our success with the bank, etc ... know what I mean? Make any sense? I remember being young - we changed the world even though the fogeys ran it. Now, I is a fogey. U 2 May B A FogE.

[Wyoming53]

If it were anybody against Hillbillary I would vote against. She doesn't warrant a positive thread. She is for the UN running the war. She is for the Unilateral Gov. She wants to hand it over and we won't be sovern. Anti gun. Need I say more?

[Wyody]

Well Fi'ty, just 'cause you're against something doesn't mean I am - doesn't mean you're right - doesn't mean I am.
I'm against blood-letting.
Some folks aren't. I'm against them.
So, it's a bit more complicated than you getting your tattoos painted.
People like you have been having their say for an awfully long time ... and it's proven to be a big, knuckle-dragging mistake.
Not that you're running - but I think I'd take HilBillary over you ... simply because she's not proud of being a killer.
Now, that's in no way designed to be an insult to you - but to point out that your way ain't workin', either.
Besides - she was married to the only decent president we've had in half-a-century - she might've picked up something she can use.

[Wyoming53]

I doubt it. If she picked up anything, she can probably get it taken care of with a good doctor.

If you think Bill was a good pres, I feel sorry for you. And to make matters worse, he had Hillary backing him up. She thinks she's qualified. Huh???? Qualifed in what? Letting her husband run rampant? She can't keep her husband in line, we want her to run the country? Give me a break. If I did what her husband did, I'd be ashamed to try and run the country.

[Panterro]

Originally Posted by Wyody

Besides - she was married to the only decent president we've had in half-a-century

Oh please tell me you did not just make that statement. You mean the decent President that cheated on his wife not once but multiple times? And he did it in the oval office, with a intern? You mean the same President that was impeached. I give the next Quote so I can prove I know what I am talking about..

President of the United States Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, and acquitted by the Senate on February 12, 1999. The charges, perjury and obstruction of justice, arose from the Monica Lewinsky scandal and Paula Jones law suit.

Not only that but this is the same President that allowed a certain terrorist go, when he had him. Had he done his job 9-11 may not have happened. We can go on and on.. about this shameful man.

I think your medications are clouding your memory of what Clinton was.

[Wyody]

Pan, Pan, Pan ... old news.
So what if he cheated on Hillary - you hate her anyway right? Sounds like you're not the only one. R U Blaming Bubba?
Also, tell me he's the first prez to catch a hummer while setting in the Oval Orifice.
Don't misconstrue my use of the word "decent" here - I wasn't meaning it in the broadest sense of the word.
And even you must know that most of those Clinton years were nothing but a Republican-inspired "Witch Hunt".
No, Pan, I was referring to the balanced budget, the surplus for Social Security, the aiming of the Ship-of-State toward peaceful and progressive waters.
Please remember that, while that boy was bloomed in Arkansas, he became a member of a class of people who are raised thinking that marital infidelity is normal - as Hillary was also raised - as Bush was raised - they're from a different world. They're Elites.
It just so happens he had the only good and TRUE numbers of any president during our lifetime.
Even "Mr. Popular" - Reagan - had to totally change the books to make the claim that we were "doing good" - when, we weren't - but he changed the books to say so. Clinton didn't change the books - he changed the numbers.
And not only that, were it not for Bubba, how many centuries do you think we would have had to have waited for someone to invent the now-famous line "Well, it depends on what your definition of "is" is". (?)

[Panterro]

Do you really believe that nonsense? Every President benefits from the ones before him. Its not like they come into office and POOF! instant change and betterment for all. Clinton got to benefit from Reagans and Bush Seniors Economic plans.. He then took 8 years and botched it all up and gave the new Bush a mess to clean.

And if your gonna sit there and act like what Clinton did was not immoral and wrong then you need therapy. He was not impeached because he had sex, he was impeached because he is a F'in Liar, and he committed PERJURY! How can you believe a word the man has ever said.. he is a two faced liar, and I bet his wife is the same. The only Reason Hillery stayed with the Piece of crap known as Bill Clinton, was because she wanted to use him for her own ambitions.

So Please spare me your babble on how "DECENT" of a president Bill was.. he has to be the worst one we have ever had. He should of been shot and killed driving down a Dallas Street like another piece of crap President we had back then.

[Wyody]

Wow - both of ya - seem to be forgetting Evil Bush I and Evil Bush II along with "Pull the Wool over their eyes" Ronnie.
Separate your Church & State tomfoolery from clear vision.
Clinton put this country back on the map economically - to propagate a farce that he left Bush a mess of any kind is 90% totally wrong. Bush has messed up everything he touched.
Now, 53, yeah ... I can see it - 53 happens to be all tied up in some sort of "Baptist Fantasy World" - and I doubt that he's Baptist.
But Pan? Mr. Pagan? You must be spittin' the alphabets outta your soup as you sit there trying to keep a straight face!
Bubba got laid ...wait ... no ... he didn't get"laid" but he got "trimmed" - tie that into being president - Sure, the last 40 presidents or so kept it a better secret .. but Bubba was, after all, from Arkansas.
Had the Republican congress been doing it's job, it wouldn't have been spending it's time trying to tattle-tale every time Bubba-Louie turned around.
No, I don't like the fact that Bubba Gumped on his wife - I don't care that he lied about it - Presidents lie all the time. Men lie all the time. People lie all the time - but it has nothing to do with being President - and if either of you think it does ... I'll call you a pair of Pentecostals!
Remember Pan - you're only one of the ex-cops around here - I know darn well that if you spent any time at all behind a badge in the civilian world then, you have no wishy-washy fallacies about how "rosy and nice" the human race is.
But ... and I'll give you this (both of you) ... you're entitled to look as you want at what you want and see what you want.
Nothing I can do can make you right.

[Panterro]

I am stunned. A man of your intelligence is really saying and believing the nonsense that is coming forth from your mouth. I can only figure you have been hitting the bottle, or are on some form of medication and either missed a pill, or have taken a bit too much.

12 years of Tax cuts and Ronnie economics is what Billy boy got, and in 8 he fouled it up and left Bush Jr. a god awful mess.

Just because I am Pagan does not mean I do not know the difference from wrong and right, or what morals are all about. What Clinton did was wrong, and immoral. And thats the minor part of it.. he lied to this country, as well as a court of law, instead of being a man about it and just saying he was sorry and owning up to his sins.

As for the Congress doing its job.. there are parts of that I agree with, but had there been a more honest President in the White House they would of not had to keep one eye on him all the time and try to do the job they were elected to do. Heck he was such a chore, I'm surprised they got anything done at all. This is not a simple LIE, it was PERJURY!

Perjury is the act of lying or making verifiably false statements on a material matter under oath or affirmation in a court of law or in any of various sworn statements in writing. Perjury is a crime because the witness has sworn to tell the truth and, for the credibility of the court, witness testimony must be relied on as being truthful. Perjury is considered a serious offense as it can be used to usurp the power of the courts, resulting in miscarriages of justice. In the United States, for example, the general perjury statute under Federal law provides for a prison sentence of up to five years, and is found at 18 U.S.C. § 1621. See also 28 U.S.C. § 1746.

The Man should be in Prison. As a man who took an oath to Serve and Protect, I think he is a criminal and should be in prison. Oh I know the face of man real well.. and the evils he is capable of doing.. and thats why I can say what I think of Bill Clinton, I know his example well.

I think there are some people here that are so sure of the side of the fence they stand on, they don't even try to look on the other side to see if they are wrong. They like to make claims like I can do nothing to make you right.. when the other side maybe right and them wrong. But then again.. what do I know, I'm just a stupid barbarian pagan, with no morals and no sense to see what stuff is for what it is.

[Wyody]

I won't address your entire post here - it's obvious you have strong feelings.
However, let's correct a couple of things - first, Reagan destroyed America economically. Those tax-cuts weren't for you and me. They were for the top-end. That scarey ol' "Trickle-Down" theory. That "urinate down my back and tell me it's raining" theory. I realize you were young at the time - I was too, comparatively - but grown and was paying close attention.
All Reagan did was create some artificial books and PR America into believing it. It wasn't real. Now, he didn't directly hand Billy-Boy anything - remember that George I came along first ... and really, the only thing I remember from him is that famous lie he told the American people "Read my lips; no new taxes". I dozed thru his term, basically - except I woke up now and then to see that it was, really, just more of the same BS from the Reagan years. Oh, I could dish on prior years before Reagan - but I never quite knew who to blame - there was so much going on and the controlling generations were still hung up on Roosevelt and Truman - I felt way out of touch.
Now, just to expound for a sec on your rant that ended with something like "I'm just a stupid, barbarian pagan";
Pan, simple truth is, most Americans aren't all that bright to begin with. Not all that many "A" students. Not all that many truly insightful doers. Just folks. Schmoes, if you will. Yes, you and I inclusive - most everyone here inclusive (no offense) ... and we see what we see, feel what we feel, and hope for whatever ... and we all see it different - even when we agree.
Just because I saw what Reagan's administration did - first to California and next to America ... and you didn't ... doesn't mean you were on drugs. Just because I know that politics is not for honest people and that We, the Citizenry, have been lied to for centuries upon centuries by government after government ... and you're professing to be highly-and-mightily into some honest politician somewhere ... doesn't mean you're on drugs.
I do find you naive on some things - but I don't care - you've got a lot more problems than simply being a touch naive - and what's cool is, I don't have to deal with it. You either learn or you don't. Not my problem. Don't miss the bus pal - you'll know it - it's the short one.
Peace

[Panterro]

LOL, now I am a special ed case.. nice. Your good at calling names and hiding it in some sorta guise. Good for you.

What sorta problems do you think I have? Other than being Naive.

As for this statement: he didn't directly hand Billy-Boy anything - remember that George I came along first.

Maybe you missed it, I did say 12 years of Republican leadership, Clinton benefited from.. something he destroyed in 8... and left Bush Jr. with. Now I can see it, some Democrap will get in office next, and things will seem to change instantly, and all these democraps will scream about how they changed everything for the better, and all they got was what Bush Jr. Left them, and took credit for it.

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Panterro

LOL, now I am a special ed case.. nice. Your good at calling names and hiding it in some sorta guise. Good for you.

What sorta problems do you think I have? Other than being Naive.

As for this statement: he didn't directly hand Billy-Boy anything - remember that George I came along first.

Maybe you missed it, I did say 12 years of Republican leadership, Clinton benefited from.. something he destroyed in 8... and left Bush Jr. with. Now I can see it, some Democrap will get in office next, and things will seem to change instantly, and all these democraps will scream about how they changed everything for the better, and all they got was what Bush Jr. Left them, and took credit for it.

Actually Pan, I wasn't trying to hide it in guise & wile. I was simply trying to respond to your accusations of me being on drugs, taking cheap-azz pot-shots while making no sense. I was just trying to come up with something to top your own "stupid, barbarian pagan" line. That was a cheap shot - you're right. Sorry. But I still found it "chuckly". And "stupid, barbarian pagan" will just have to do, I guess. For now, anyway although, if I'm not the one that invents it, I have trouble getting fully behind it.
Now - you're right - you did say 12 years - however, they handed Clinton a nightmare of a mess. Don't know what the heck you're talking about making it sound like they gave him something good. They'd carried out the charade as far as it would go and the jig was up so they gave the mess to Clinton - and it got fixed. I know you know this - and I know you know how politics works, i.e., when one party loses the White House, they spend the last two months throwing monkey-wrenches in everything they can, knowing that the new administration will spend nearly all of a first term fixing it - if they can. Don't know if Carter did it to Reagan - I didn't know about it yet. I know they did it to Clinton - and I know Clinton did it to Bush. Look for more of the same this time if the Dems win.
Now, I just want to give you the opportunity to recant what you said about George W. handing them a gift-basket of well-oiled machinery. Surely there is not a human-being alive today that still thinks George W. has done anything right with this country.
Now, on the flip-side, surely he'll try and do something right during the next year to try and leave some sort of decent legacy ... I mean, seriously, the clown will never work again. Even Cheney will get speaking engagements - while G.W., well, he'd better buy himself another baseball team or something - it's back to the salt mines for him.
Please forgive my confusion in dealing with your writing - for some reason, it's hard for me to tell the difference with you between when your brain-cells have actually failed and when you're just talkin' 'cause your finger-lips don't know when to stop typing.
I have the same problem sometimes.

[Wyoming53]

Notice I didn't comment. It was my birthday and I was giving myself a present of not argueing.

Hillbillary is an ass. She always was and will always be.

If'n I was going to choose somebody to run, I would vote for Alan Simpson with Swartz as a vice. Wyody, you can't argue with that one. Well, maybe the vice. Here's a good one for you.

Alan Simpson as prez and Gerry Spence backing him up as vice. It just don't get better then that.

Just a down home country lawyer. He always impressed me with his fringed jacket.

I actually sat down and had coffee with Gerry and Alan. I was so impressed I think I wet myself. There are not two more intelligent people on this planet.

[Panterro]

Well we don't see eye to eye on this, and I don't think we ever will. I will agree that all politicians are full of crap and can not be trusted. In that, they are all the same. Thats why we need a new party.. or we just blend them all into one and roll the dice again.

[Wyody]

First of all - to 53. I don't know who Alan Simpson is but I can preface with my mindset - and that is, I've never met a Wyoming politician that I like. They're all 100 years behind times and ignorant. Now, I did meet Fruedenthal (sp?) and liked him personally but didn't like his first years in office but also don't know more beyond that.
Gerry Spence - how long can that fellow live? One of Wyoming's true treasures. A knight in shining armor for the little guy ... if the little guy has some big bucks!

And to Pan (and probably 53). - No, I doubt that we'll agree on many things. Oh, I have found us to be in agreement here and there - always surprises me too - but in a good way.
My biggest problem is this: My generation had to fight hard to ward off the numbness of many prior generations - some of us made it all the way to freedom ... only to be dragged back because, eventually, you become like your parents more than you want - and my parents were of a generation we tried hard to escape from. Some of us lost our grip because we fought so hard to escape the choke-hold of "stuck-in-the-past-barbarism". Some of my generation never had a clue - never woke up, never will, don't even know to this day that they're asleep. Dang, I'm jealous of them. Others of my generation fought to hold on to the past - and did so.
Now, as you've undoubtedly already seen, the generations that follow you seem to be missing the point, missing the proper approach - am I right?
Your generation, in general, has had a different and louder approach to change - without all the niceties my generation was taught to uphold so, it seemed a little harsh from the get-go.
What gets me with you, Pan - you seem to be a throw-back to my parents' generation. Very small-town raised (which I don't think you are but don't know) and running around with blinders on (like most good republicans).
In short, I've already had these arguments 35 years ago with my parents' generation - it blows my mind to find folks clinging to stagnancy in this day and age. These are arguments I should be having with friends of "MY" age or older. Normally, such a mindset would be expected of "Bible-Belters" - which you ain't - or "Good ol' boys from the sticks" - which you ain't or ol', stuck in the high-ranches of Wyoming crusties - which you also ain't.
So, some of my approach comes from a sense of exasperation that I have to go through this same crap ... with a young'un! - which - you also ain't no more but yet, compared to me, you are.
I just envisioned a more progressive planet years ago, when we were trying to make some much needed changes. That's all.
Ask Wyoming though - we still care about folks we don't agree with. The only folks we don't respect are those who beat their kids or horses ... and even with those, we'll still go check on the kids and horses in a storm. So, peace, flatfoot!

[Wyoming53]

Alan Simpson was our state senator for years. Lives in Jackson right next to Gerry Spence. Most level headed player I ever met.