TS I am having hard time!

[thecuban]

I love debates!! I am a hard core Republican that has lost its zest to debate since I met you all here. I am having an awkward moment here guy's. I have met the best bunch of people here so far. There is not one of you that I wouldn't have a drink with. Its to weired!

[a1m1700]

[quote=thecuban;3325]I love debates!! I am a hard core Republican that has lost its zest to debate since I met you all here. I am having an awkward moment here guy's. I have met the best bunch of people here so far. There is not one of you that I wouldn't have a drink with. Its to weired! [/QUOTE


Don't worry most are thick skinned on here, they don't scare easily.

[the dufferz]

Originally Posted by thecuban

I love debates!! I am a hard core Republican that has lost its zest to debate since I met you all here. I am having an awkward moment here guy's. I have met the best bunch of people here so far. There is not one of you that I wouldn't have a drink with. Its to weired!

Ok.

Look cuban you right wing demagog neocon. George bush is the devil and that makes are a demon from republi-hell. You want everybody but your rich fat republican country club buddies to die of polution and poverty. You support the party that brought down the trade centers. You are EVIL

There. Did that help any?

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by the dufferz

Ok.

Look cuban you right wing demagog neocon. George bush is the devil and that makes are a demon from republi-hell. You want everybody but your rich fat republican country club buddies to die of polution and poverty. You support the party that brought down the trade centers. You are EVIL

There. Did that help any?

Sorry man, it didn't work. I love you!!

[a1m1700]

Originally Posted by the dufferz

Ok.

Look cuban you right wing demagog neocon. George bush is the devil and that makes are a demon from republi-hell. You want everybody but your rich fat republican country club buddies to die of polution and poverty. You support the party that brought down the trade centers. You are EVIL

There. Did that help any?

Yeah and I want my piece of the pie!!! I'm tired of living in two Americas, when are these rich mucky muck CEO's gonna give me some money? I want free healthcare too, let's make all these rich people that make more than 50,000 pay for it!!!!!! We have no jobs in this country I have to work two jobs to be able to support myself.........Oh wait I said we had no jobs and I'm working two!!! Oh never mind that comment. Just re-distribute some money into my purse.

[ProEye]

Originally Posted by thecuban

I love debates!! I am a hard core Republican that has lost its zest to debate since I met you all here. I am having an awkward moment here guy's. I have met the best bunch of people here so far. There is not one of you that I wouldn't have a drink with. Its to weired!

Okay, let's talk.

I feel that I'm fairly conservative but I think George Bush is a Republican in name only. He's just like his father and he is just like any other typical politician who wants to spend all our money.

My first inclination that I may have voted for the wrong guy was his first bloated budget proposal. I was thinking, "okay, maybe this is just an aberration, we'll see what happens." He's been spending like crazy since and he's let me down in so many ways I feel like my vote was worthless. (Let's not get into a debate about who else would have gotten into office had I not voted for him--that's not my point)

I'm not even sure what to say about Iraq. It's very odd why Republicans have picked this topic as their own. I swear that there is no such thing as political parties any more, it seems like each party just picks sides for every debate. They don't really stand for anything, they just make sure they are polar opposites. Republicans have traditionally been people who think that everyone is entitled to choosing their own destinies. We stayed out of other people's business. While it might have been true that our buddy Saddam was harboring WMDs and we were justified to go into Iraq, but why are we still there? I think a lot of conservatives are thinking the same thing but are afraid to say it for fear that they will be labeled a liberal or a non-patriot.

I am a patriot and I love this country but I don't love the fact that we are killing ourselves for someone else. Any sane person knows that our federal government can't do anything without spending $1 million doing it or writing 1,000 page document on the intricacies of wiping and flushing. Why are we letting them form a new government in another country is beyond me. Our idiot government is not capable of doing anything right!

I sure hope that no one thinks that we are fighting for Iraqis. Screw them! There is no way in hell that I would fight for someone else's country. If I'm going to fight for anything, I'll fight for my life and the lives of my family. Beyond that, do whatever you want to do. Leave me out of it.

At the same time, I understand the need to stabilize the area. I understand the need to spread democracy in an area that could lead us to WWIII. But we are clearly not going about the operation correctly and we are letting ourselves get too PC about it. I say, "kill the bastards". Quit worrying about who we are upsetting and DO YOUR JOBS!

People are dying because our federal bureaucracy is a bloated mess. There is no way that *I* would put myself in harm's way for a bunch of pencil pushers who don't know how to spend my money.

I could go on and on about this but those are my feelings. Maybe I'm just ranting with no purpose. Again, while I support this country and I support democracy, my fundamental urge tells me that we should not be in other people's business.

The biggest problem is that we put ourselves into messes that we can't get out of. If we didn't have this HUGE need for oil we may not be there. While I think it's not the overriding reason why we are in Iraq, it's true that if the region were destabilized our flow of oil could be interrupted. If we didn't have this HUGE need to protect a tiny country that was built in the middle of a war zone that has been this way for thousands of years, we wouldn't be there. And yes we have a HUGE need to prevent terrorism and maybe it has left the war over there instead of on our own soil but that's a stretch since it certainly does not mean that Al Queda can't fight two wars at the same time.

And what about this "spreading democracy"? You don't spread democracy by invading another country. If we believed that we should be in half the countries on this planet. Seems like we haven't done a very good job in this department since it seems that nearly every backward country that has been this way for millennia and is still this way today. Seems like we aren't doing a good job of spreading the message, especially when you have Hollywood leading the way. Why is it that our message is being distorted by what Hollywood thinks, acts, and does? That's America right there. That's what the people of the world think our country is made of.

Maybe George Bush is a genius and he's protected us from harm. Hard to say. Could also say that we've just been darn lucky since '01.

Maybe I've bitten off more than I can chew with this debate because it seems to be a bigger topic than I can handle but I do know that I'm dazed and confused. I don't know what to think.

However, I do know this: George Bush has not been a good leader. He is not a Ronald Reagan by any means. That man was as close to being a saint and a true leader as any man alive. I suppose if nothing else, I can say that Bush has convictions and I respect him for it, but he has not done a good job of convincing us Americans of his game plan.

Get us out of Iraq as quickly as possible, do a better job of stabilizing the region, stop falling prey to whatever PC judge is out there, and quit spending my money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay... There's your debate. Now don't tell me you agree with me otherwise, we won't have anything to talk about...

[Wyody]

Your okay with the working two jobs part (sorry, would have to quote the entire page). What I figure you meant was, you're working two jobs because you need the second one to help pay for the health insurance your first job offers. You can't afford it on the first job because they keep shifting you back and forth from 40 hours to 32 hours a week to save costs and keep at least one extra local employed.
The Dufferz chimed in on-stroke with the "devil fat-cat" speed-rant and I was nodding all the way going "uh-huh, uh-huh" so, tongue-in-cheek or not, it shows you have a great grasp of general perceptions.
Pro-eye, I'm still waiting for the coffee to perk - then I can read you more in-depth.
But tell me y'all, don't you think it's even a little humorous that GeeDub and the R's have wiped out the budget they inherited with extraordinary spending on things not related to living here - but now that they have a democrat-congress and GeeDub is growing lame-duckier by the day he's swearing to balance the budget - thus attempting to perform a Reaganistic-tying of congress' hands by P.R. schmaltz to the American public?
(added)
ProEye - sorry but I do agree with you on most points and it's too late to argue Reagan.
But you almost mention a point that's been on my mind for lo, these four or five years now ..... Where's my .25 cent gas!!!!

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by ProEye

...George Bush is a Republican in name only. He's just like his father...

C'mon, that's quite a slap at Bush 41! George H W Bush is a far greater man than his dissolute, lazy and ignorant son Dubya. He's an honest man who actually cares about facts, not just superficial "truthiness".

Spoken by Dubya on Sept. 6, 2006:
You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror.

[ProEye]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

C'mon, that's quite a slap at Bush 41! George H W Bush is a far greater man than his dissolute, lazy and ignorant son Dubya. He's an honest man who actually cares about facts, not just superficial "truthiness".

I meant that GHW was also a liberoconservative.

I don't think GW is dissolute, lazy, and ignorant. I think he has simply taken the wrong course of action with quite a few things.

[Curious George]

Originally Posted by thecuban

I love debates!! I am a hard core Republican that has lost its zest to debate since I met you all here. I am having an awkward moment here guy's. I have met the best bunch of people here so far. There is not one of you that I wouldn't have a drink with. Its to weired!

Ok thecuban is buying an the admin is sending us all to the Bahamas how much better can it get

[NHYRNUT]

Originally Posted by a1m1700

Yeah and I want my piece of the pie!!! I'm tired of living in two Americas, when are these rich mucky muck CEO's gonna give me some money? I want free healthcare too, let's make all these rich people that make more than 50,000 pay for it!!!!!! We have no jobs in this country I have to work two jobs to be able to support myself.........Oh wait I said we had no jobs and I'm working two!!! Oh never mind that comment. Just re-distribute some money into my purse.

Um I'm greedy Pay your own health care. LOL MY Money mine mine mine. Well I'll give it to the person that never holds a job and pops out kids to live on my tax dollars ok. But they deserve it.After all it takes a Village to raise a child. So I will gladly give that person my hard earned money.

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by Curious George

Ok thecuban is buying an the admin is sending us all to the Bahamas how much better can it get

Ok! Thats a deal!!! Is draft beer Ok?

[Curious George]

Originally Posted by thecuban

Ok! Thats a deal!!! Is draft beer Ok?

Alright were set Admin just needs to tell us when our flight leaves
Or should we take a poll

[PamB]

I seem to keep popping in at just the right time! First pie now beer. Does it get any better?

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by ProEye

I meant that GHW was also a liberoconservative.

I don't think GW is dissolute, lazy, and ignorant. I think he has simply taken the wrong course of action with quite a few things.

Do you mean...
"balanced budget" vs. $2 Trillion added to the national debt,
"no nation building" vs. overthrowning Saddam,
his leadership on entitlement spending,
his insightful immigration reform proposals,
his successes in energy independence, disaster relief, education reform,
or other items from the endless list?

Maybe that's all because he's been dissolute, lazy and ignorant?

Spoken by Dubya, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003:
I'm the master of low expectations.

C'mon, you know I'm just trying to get Cuban's blood pumping, as requested!

[a1m1700]

This is getting good got some liberals here and some closet ones too. This is almost as good as the citi-data forum.

[MyAzi]

Originally Posted by a1m1700

This is almost as good as the citi-data forum.

ALMOST??!!!!!!!! You should be flogged for that comment!!!!

[thecuban]

OK!!! This is my view to all that have responded. I live my life in the now looking forward to the future and learning from the past. We all where devastated the day that those radicals came into our soil using our own airplanes to kill Innocent lives. They have us looking over our shoulder on a daily bases. They have changed the way we travel and where we travel to. They are stealing our America away from us. This land is land of the free. Land where people have come from all parts of the world because of that freedom. The day is coming when you will never be able to talk on the phone in private. The day will come when you will need more than an ID to identify yourself. It will be government planted on your body. Where you go what you do will always be monitored by the government. The day will come that you will not be able to practice your religion. Government will be forced to outlaw religion. "There is a reason for my madness guys"! Those radical Muslims believe that there is only one real religion. I know what you are saying, so does every other religion. Yea but other religions don't believe that you should get rid of all the infidels and if you do you will be rewarded by god. Now, do all Muslims believe this? Of course not but the ones that do live among Iraq, Iran, Syria etc. and they are those that have penetrated and live here in America as well. Don't be fulled in believing that the only ones that where here died in the airplanes. To top it all off they are rich and we made them that way. They are planning to kill us with our own money. This war to them is not about money its about killing the infidels. They are not going to stop. I believe if we do not stop them now they will create havoc here in America and our government will have no choice than to change the way we live to protect us. There goes our freedom. Now do I believe we entered into Iraq because they had Md's? No! Of course not! This was tactical plan from the beginning. If Bush would of went to America and said we need to occupy Iraq to have a place in the middle east beside Israel to stop these radicals in there own country, would you have voted for that? Now that you know how I feel don't be a hater!!

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by thecuban

Now do I believe we entered into Iraq because they had [WMD]'s? No! Of course not! This was tactical plan from the beginning. If Bush would of went to America and said we need to occupy Iraq to have a place in the middle east beside Israel to stop these radicals in there own country, would you have voted for that?

Bush has admitted the 9/11 Commission Report is correct, that there never was any connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda or terrorism, and no WMDs existed.

Bush says "Iraq is the central front in the war on terror". There were no terrorists there before, so Bush should take full credit for creating them.

Latest Newsweek poll Jan 17-18 2007 more polls
"Do you approve or disapprove of the way Bush is handling the situation in Iraq?"
Approve 24%, Disapprove 70%

Maybe he'll learn, and will invade Canada next? They've got oil, no connection to terrorism, and no WMDs: all the necessary qualifications. Let the breakaway region of Quebecistan go, let the radical Anglicannis and Unitarites battle it out, and keep Alberta! That country's ready to fall apart anyway. Yeah, that should work out better than Iraq!

Spoken by Dubya in Mobile AL on 9/2/05:
And Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job.

Just trying to keep your blood pumping, Cuban!

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

Bush has admitted the 9/11 Commission Report is correct, that there never was any connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda or terrorism, and no WMDs existed.

Bush says "Iraq is the central front in the war on terror". There were no terrorists there before, so Bush should take full credit for creating them.

Latest Newsweek poll Jan 17-18 2007 more polls
"Do you approve or disapprove of the way Bush is handling the situation in Iraq?"
Approve 24%, Disapprove 70%

Maybe he'll learn, and will invade Canada next? They've got oil, no connection to terrorism, and no WMDs: all the necessary qualifications. Let the breakaway region of Quebecistan go, let the radical Anglicannis and Unitarites battle it out, and keep Alberta! That country's ready to fall apart anyway. Yeah, that should work out better than Iraq!


Just trying to keep your blood pumping, Cuban!

How many UN resolutions later? Give a break you paint Iraq like it was some beautiful vacation spot that ever body wanted to go to. If Iraq was this none threatening spot in middle east then why are there so many fighting against its liberation. Fact: Al Qaeda had conversations with Iraq for weeks before 911.

[milliebfit]

They have oil we need oil. We have a military to protect our interest. If we do not protect our interest we will become one of those 3rd. world countries that will be having rice and wheat bags dropping from airplanes so we can eat!!

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by thecuban

How many UN resolutions later? Give a break you paint Iraq like it was some beautiful vacation spot that ever body wanted to go to. If Iraq was this none threatening spot in middle east then why are there so many fighting against its liberation. Fact: Al Qaeda had conversations with Iraq for weeks before 911.

Fact: resulting in no cooperation between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Ref: 9/11 Commission Final Report.

Question: is Iraq "liberated"? It's a serious question, not just a debating point. You must realize that many would naturally not view a foreign military occupation as "liberation"? Especially an occupation as incompetently planned and unsuccessful and this one, which is worse than Saddam.

Question: was Iraq more threatening to the U.S. than, say, Iran? North Korea? In the long run, China? Was it sufficiently threatening, under U.N. sanctions and inspections, to divert our focus from Afghanistan and leave Bin Laden free?

[Sekretgardengal]

:) I agree about feeling great about everybody here! Cheers!

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

Fact: resulting in no cooperation between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Ref: 9/11 Commission Final Report.

Question: is Iraq "liberated"? It's a serious question, not just a debating point. You must realize that many would naturally not view a foreign military occupation as "liberation"? Especially an occupation as incompetently planned and unsuccessful and this one, which is worse than Saddam.

Question: was Iraq more threatening to the U.S. than, say, Iran? South Korea? In the long run, China? Was it sufficiently threatening, under U.N. sanctions and inspections, to divert our focus from Afghanistan and leave Bin Laden free?

I will say it again our going in to Iraq was a tactical one. Think of what you are asking. Iran, North Korea not South, China will not be easy to take down if attacked, but Iraq was. Now that we are in Iraq strategically we have put ourselves in a better spot to take care of Iran if necessary. Now we have another country besides Israel in that region. I am thinking outside the box. I have friends in the military that tell me that what we here is not always the truth. For our own good certain information is held back. You can not possibly believe that when it comes to the safety of this nation every move will be told to the general public. Do you? By the way you are my new best friend. :mrgreen: You got me going. Thanks! See ya at the party for some beers.

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by thecuban

I will say it again our going in to Iraq was a tactical one. Think of what you are asking. Iran, North Korea not South, China will not be easy to take down if attacked, but Iraq was.

Iraq was? "Mission Accomplished", is it? Or no end in sight?

Originally Posted by thecuban

Now that we are in Iraq strategically we have put ourselves in a better spot to take care of Iran if necessary. Now we have another country besides Israel in that region.

Now that the U.S. military is over-committed, re-extended, tied down, and Iran is strategically stronger than it has ever been before, we are in a better position? That is an absolutely astounding statement.

If things keep getting better like this, Raoul Castro will be able to invade Florida, and win!

Originally Posted by thecuban

I am thinking outside the box. I have friends in the military that tell me that what we here is not always the truth. For our own good certain information is held back. You can not possibly believe that when it comes to the safety of this nation every move will be told to the general public. Do you?

Hmm... well, perhaps President Bush should fire Karl Rove and put you in charge of the White House Office of Public Relations? No President has had this level of popular support since Nixon (just before he resigned). So far, Bush has handed Congress to the Democrats, and if he "stays the course" and keeps "holding back all the good news", will hand the White House to them in two years.

Or maybe the news simply isn't so good? Even Dick Cheney hasn't found much good news to talk about since the November election... not that he has any credibility left, anyway.

Originally Posted by thecuban

By the way you are my new best friend. You got me going.:mrgreen: Thanks! See ya at the party for some beers.

At your service, sir!

p.s. "Bush bashing" is not a liberal sport. It is conservatives who were truly betrayed by Bush, who "talked the talk, but did not walk the walk".

[thecuban]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

Iraq was? "Mission Accomplished", is it? Or no end in sight?



Now that the U.S. military is over-committed, re-extended, tied down, and Iran is strategically stronger than it has ever been before, we are in a better position? That is an absolutely astounding statement.

If things keep getting better like this, Raoul Castro will be able to invade Florida, and win!



Hmm... well, perhaps President Bush should fire Karl Rove and put you in charge of the White House Office of Public Relations? No President has had this level of popular support since Nixon (just before he resigned). So far, Bush has handed Congress to the Democrats, and if he "stays the