Port Saint Lucie

[Wyody]

Rainbow - the illegal alien problem is everywhere! Everywhere!! Ever since the mid 1400's when those "probably-Dutch" sailors shipwrecked near Abermarle in SC and walked ashore, were allowed to live and started breeding with the then-local Natives (slightly before the Cherokee ran them off) creating a race known as Melungeons and incorporating themselves into North American genetics - I repeat ... Ever since then, there has been a problem with illegals. Now, it just happens to be people of mostly Mexican origin ... and I do not know of a state where this has not become a major issue.
Time to deal with the problem properly and intelligently - regardless of our individual feelings on the matter. If history is any indication, that will take another fifty years.

[Jenbar]

Very good post, Wyody.

[scirocco22]

But notice that in the article she posted that nowhere did it say or refer to "Mexicans." Sure, we can presuppose that the implication is that the majority of these "illegals" are from Mexico. But the point here is that she initially used the term "Mexicans" and I for one didn't necessarily interpret that as "all illegal immigrants.

Another poster brought to my attention that "we all knew what she meant" and cautioned me not to "read" something that is not there. I thought about what he said for sometime and tried to understand his point. Although I understood his point, I couldn't chastise myself for interpreting her words any differently than I did initially.

That's all. So my point is if you don't want people to interpret your words out of context, then give it just a little more thought before posting.

Man, here I'm doing what I was advocating against ...posting these types of discussions or banterings here in the "states" forums. This whole discussion should be taken out of this thread. We have to do a more diligent job of moderating ourselves.

--'rocco

[Jenbar]

And you have a really good point too!

But notice that in the article she posted that nowhere did it say or refer to "Mexicans." Sure, we can presuppose that the implication is that the majority of these "illegals" are from Mexico. But the point here is that she initially used the term "Mexicans" and I for one didn't necessarily interpret that as "all illegal immigrants.

[RAINBOWWAVES]

Originally Posted by Wyody

Rainbow - the illegal alien problem is everywhere! Everywhere!! Ever since the mid 1400's when those "probably-Dutch" sailors shipwrecked near Abermarle in SC and walked ashore, were allowed to live and started breeding with the then-local Natives (slightly before the Cherokee ran them off) creating a race known as Melungeons and incorporating themselves into North American genetics - I repeat ... Ever since then, there has been a problem with illegals. Now, it just happens to be people of mostly Mexican origin ... and I do not know of a state where this has not become a major issue.
Time to deal with the problem properly and intelligently - regardless of our individual feelings on the matter. If history is any indication, that will take another fifty years.

Yes but the biggest concentration is here and Ca...because of the weather. There were also quite a few in Jersey that would wait on a corner of a main street and take pisses on the sides of stores. My friends and family back in NJ said they are making big sweeps and alot of arrests.They said Jersey is not going to stand for it.

[Jenbar]

because of the weather.

???

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by RAINBOWWAVES

Yes but the biggest concentration is here and Ca...because of the weather. There were also quite a few in Jersey that would wait on a corner of a main street and take pisses on the sides of stores. My friends and family back in NJ said they are making big sweeps and alot of arrests.They said Jersey is not going to stand for it.

My mind will not let me agree with what you're saying, i.e., that FL and CA have the largest concentrations. They are everywhere!! Ohio, Idaho, Michigan, New York ... I can see the possibility of it being due to the size of the states mentioned ... but that brings us straight to Texas. However, I will not argue this point - I have no data. But sweeps are done almost everywhere you turn these days.
I will take slight objection to the NJ urination debacle and here's why.
I have known Mexican folks off and on throughout my life. For the most part, their standard of living is not as high as many places in the US - but most I have known have been fine, intelligent, articulate, conscientious people - of strong Catholic heritage. Of strong family values. Of hard working and honest-earning values. I think that reference - though probably true - is not an accurate reflection of a people. I think it's probably more a reflection of an overcrowded area with not enough services for the populace and not enough friendly faces to loan a bathroom to a man in need. Just an opinion.

[RAINBOWWAVES]

Originally Posted by Wyody

My mind will not let me agree with what you're saying, i.e., that FL and CA have the largest concentrations. They are everywhere!! Ohio, Idaho, Michigan, New York ... I can see the possibility of it being due to the size of the states mentioned ... but that brings us straight to Texas. However, I will not argue this point - I have no data. But sweeps are done almost everywhere you turn these days.
I will take slight objection to the NJ urination debacle and here's why.
I have known Mexican folks off and on throughout my life. For the most part, their standard of living is not as high as many places in the US - but most I have known have been fine, intelligent, articulate, conscientious people - of strong Catholic heritage. Of strong family values. Of hard working and honest-earning values. I think that reference - though probably true - is not an accurate reflection of a people. I think it's probably more a reflection of an overcrowded area with not enough services for the populace and not enough friendly faces to loan a bathroom to a man in need. Just an opinion.

http://www.urban.org/publications/410366.html

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by RAINBOWWAVES

http://www.urban.org/publications/410366.html

Let me just announce that this link, although much wider in actual scope, targets the criminal-element in the "illegal alien" groups - of which most are from Mexico and others from Central & South America and the Carribean.
It starts out with the narrow-scope of the criminal-element and the costs and burdening of the Justice systems - which of course equates to the tax-payer.
After that, it deals with the illegal-alien problems in general and not specifically the criminal element.
It also lists FL & CA as two of the seven states with the highest current numbers - AZ having the highest and apparently Texas the lowest and NJ definitely being included.
Now, just to make sure you know, Rainbow, this is the only real impact the article has on me, i.e., verification of which states are most affected.
The "criminal-element" parts I just put down on the "social and financial annoyance list" I keep in my cerebral "back-pocket". In no way do I associate it with the people from Mexico we have all come to know and love as our neighbors and friends.

[MyAzi]

Thank you Wyody...well put.

Now if the rest of us could be as eloquent as you are in your responses, there would be a lot less tension in the forum.

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by MyAzi

Thank you Wyody...well put.

Now if the rest of us could be as eloquent as you are in your responses, there would be a lot less tension in the forum.

Cool. And I thank RainbowWaves for providing a link to substantiate some of the numbers and to further inform us of the many problems caused by us - we the people - because we didn't think far enough ahead already to have somehow avoided the problems we see today - in Florida and around the country.

[MyAzi]

Originally Posted by Wyody

Cool. And I thank RainbowWaves for providing a link to substantiate some of the numbers and to further inform us of the many problems caused by us - we the people - because we didn't think far enough ahead already to have somehow avoided the problems we see today - in Florida and around the country.

I feel like I should now stand and wave a flag!!!

[scirocco22]

oh man, it's gettin' a little thick in here...

--'rocco

[Jenbar]

That link was from 2000! And what does the "criminal element" to do with the other millions of illegals working in this country, in jobs the rest of Americans don't want to do? Or, like the ones RW seem to think are the problem with home builders?

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by Jenbar

That link was from 2000! And what does the "criminal element" to do with the other millions of illegals working in this country, in jobs the rest of Americans don't want to do? Or, like the ones RW seem to think are the problem with home builders?

I hope, JB, that you took time to scan the entire report - albeit a seven year old "probably-incorrect" diatribe.
1) Illegals don't take jobs that natives don't want to do. They take "last-resort" jobs that have always provided a safety-net for the natives and in times when our economy is bad (like now), it's those jobs that we fall back on to cover our groceries, our medical bills, our kid's college, Christmas, vacation expense, etc. They are jobs we need.
2) Even today, there are many illegals of the criminal element traipsing across the border with all the rest - and that creates a problem. What the report failed in was, it linked the crime of crossing the border in the first place to placing someone within the "criminal element". And it failed to also show that people who are left "on the outside" as our social system has done to so many millions all through the last century and more - have to revert to otherwise unacceptable means to go get a bag of beans and a sack of potatoes to eat this week!

[TalmudTemple]

hey Wyod

Come to SW Florida and I'll show you a TON of illegals working here...I personally know many many many !

They are younger Canadians.....all 'white-skinned' and speak standard English. The only reason they are not a subject of discourse is that they are 'invisible' to the community at large.

They also lie. Many claim to be US citizens. They are 'stealth Americans'.

The focus or proccupation on "Mexicans" is a result of "visibility" (read race), and 'language'.......

That preoccupation with 'illegals being soley Mexican' exhibits a strange brand of racism.....but there again, is there any other sort ??

Believe me, there are TONS of good ole white folks leaving the the frozen white Canada to 'hang out on the corners' of warm Manatee, Sarasota, Charlotte, and Lee counties FLORIDA.

SHALOM!

[Jenbar]

1) Illegals don't take jobs that natives don't want to do.

Hmmm... I think I would have to disagree with that. Though I don't have any references to back up my arguement at this moment, this is something I would love to discuss in more detail! I think that individuals coming into this country illegally is a problem, but I can also see how they keep our country and economy going (lower housing prices, because of lower pay to illegal workers who will accept a lower rate). I admit though, I don't know as much as I need to know about these issues (their affect on our educational & health care system, for example) and do need to learn more about it.

While I agree that illegals take American jobs (I still argue that they aren't jobs most Americans want), I think our unemployment rate right now is fairly low in *most* states, with an average of 4.6%.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

[TalmudTemple]

Frankly I'd be happy with tossing out the loads of illegal Canadian, German and British workers hanging out in sunny Sarasota County....heck I just met last night at a local restaurant 4 illegal contruction workers from AUSTRALIA fro godsake....and that's half-way around the world !

On Longboat Key there is a massive influx of illegal Russians (most of which are Jews) !

I don't think anyone is going to stop coming to the US anytime soon ...

[Wyody]

For the un-checked and allowable-inaccuracy record, There is barely a distinction to be made for our purposes regarding Canadians, Canadiennes, New Zealanders and Australians.
Russians abound in the country. They can work here for one year and go live at home in comparative luxury for three or more!

[RAINBOWWAVES]

2007...
Illegal Alien Status! That's the Ticket!
(From a Maryland resident to his senator)

The Honorable Paul S. Sarbanes 309 Hart Senate Office Building Washington DC, 20510

Dear Senator Sarbanes,

As a native Marylander and excellent customer of the Internal revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stem from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.

Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.

Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year. Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as "in-state" tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United State s for my son.

Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.

If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.

Your Loyal Constituent,

Pete McGlaughlin

Get your Forms (NOW)!! Call your Internal Revenue Service 1-800-289-1040. Please pass this onto your friends so they can save on this great offer!!!!

Posted on February 1, 2007 10:15 AM
also check this report...
http://www.theamericanresistance.com...005spring.html

[Wyody]

Would you mind terribly, RW, if I lump this with the problems caused by our government sending and spending millions and billions of dollars on people and projects in other countries while they have yet to insure, coddle and comfortably retire their own citizens? (that being us).
Oh my, the quick-list of topics that this brings to my mind is nearly embarassing! I can't even post them as the subject is still too tender.
I suppose every one of us citizens should really not have to work and sweat and scrimp and save as we should all have plenty of everything - and then we could give away ALL the jobs ... I'm starting to like it!

[RAINBOWWAVES]

Originally Posted by Wyody

Would you mind terribly, RW, if I lump this with the problems caused by our government sending and spending millions and billions of dollars on people and projects in other countries while they have yet to insure, coddle and comfortably retire their own citizens? (that being us).
Oh my, the quick-list of topics that this brings to my mind is nearly embarassing! I can't even post them as the subject is still too tender.
I suppose every one of us citizens should really not have to work and sweat and scrimp and save as we should all have plenty of everything - and then we could give away ALL the jobs ... I'm starting to like it!

well you can lump it with anything you care to...i hate the gov! Are we going to rename Iraq too when we're done killing them all in the name of democracy?

[Wyody]

Originally Posted by RAINBOWWAVES

well you can lump it with anything you care to...i hate the gov! Are we going to rename Iraq too when we're done killing them all in the name of democracy?

You're actually not too far off from the mini-rant I've felt all along on that issue - i.e. - somehow, I think I'd feel better if the gov't would just go out there, win a war right or wrong and call it whatever they want! Rather than wasting everybody's lives and time with this dreadful charade ... but I can't do that rant because I want to be against war! But thanks.
p.s. (what would [i]you[i] name it?)
and I really need to make concerted efforts to stick to the subject matter of the threads I'm posting in. Forgive.

[RAINBOWWAVES]

Originally Posted by Wyody

You're actually not too far off from the mini-rant I've felt all along on that issue - i.e. - somehow, I think I'd feel better if the gov't would just go out there, win a war right or wrong and call it whatever they want! Rather than wasting everybody's lives and time with this dreadful charade ... but I can't do that rant because I want to be against war! But thanks.
p.s. (what would [i]you[i] name it?)
and I really need to make concerted efforts to stick to the subject matter of the threads I'm posting in. Forgive.

How about BUSHLAND?