Debate Area

**Admin** · 02-25-2007, 12:27 AM

I am working on getting the requested debate area open. I want to have some rules in place before opening it, and want some opinions.

Do you think flaming should be allowed? I prefer the thought of attack the post, not the poster, but I also know that does not always happen. Should it be a rule violation in the debate area or not?

I have already decided that it will be an opt-in forum, so people that do not want to participate or even read it, will not have to see it. Joining will also be moderated, so people that can't follow the debate rules can have their access revoked without banning them from the entire site. I will choose somebody here other than myself to control the access list, and probably give them the ability to move posts in and out.

Does anybody have a creative name suggestion other than just debate?

I am open to any other suggestions. I may not implement them all, but I will take them into consideration.

**Wyody** · 02-25-2007, 12:35 AM

I might call it "The Pit".
And perhaps, instead of smilies, one can choose from a collection of medieval arms.
There should also be an olive-branch ... for when it's time for someone to make peace, give in, give up or keel over from exhaustion.
Of course, Admin and/or the moderator would have a boot and a blowtorch.

Concerning the area of rules violation - the mod would have a list of one-liners such as "personal insults are out of bounds" and perhaps a numbering system such as "That's 1" - which would not have to be issued at every violation but perhaps at every serious violation or succession of smaller ones. When someone receives the "That's 3" notice, their avatar is subjected to boot or blowtorch thus removing them from The Pit.
To avoid the possibility of a moderator over-reacting and thus ruining an otherwise acceptable debate, three opinions from other members would be presented to Admin for "higher-judgement" and the debate would continue at Admin's discretion.
And perhaps, as PDX once mentioned - some "Pit" debates could be sent into a "Cage" with actual bloodshed occurring!

**the dufferz** · 02-25-2007, 01:48 AM

The ring.
the cage,
The pit.
Cock fight
the temple of doom
The killing zone
the I hate you zone

I think that adults who debate, are capable of framing the debate to be non-personal. That said, it will not happen with some posters who get so involved they can't help it. Being an "opt-in" seems to be a good way to get these battles off the other parts of the board. I think that personal threats should be the line that once crossed should have that member escorted off the forum.

But if a member is banned, the text or post should be available to everyone to view so that they can see what happened. This "we had our reasons" crap we got at C-D was awefully easy to hide behind.

**kimbercuddles** · 02-25-2007, 03:23 AM

I agree, Dufferz...after pm'ing the admin about three times at City-data, I still had no answers and was unable to post. Finally, I asked to be banned so that people would know that I wasn't just ignoring the forum.

**Wyody** · 02-25-2007, 08:46 AM

What I really was not considering earlier is that ...... not all debates would necessarily be argumentative blood-baths ... would they? Well perhaps - I mean, if they're as civil as a civil chess-match then, there would be no need to shield them from the forum.
While I doubt that I would find myself in such debates given the caliber of informed persons that we have here, might I suggest that Farlee be in charge of serving the Brandy and Duff handle first-aid?

**Wyoming53** · 02-25-2007, 11:09 AM

Admin, I would say you have your hands full.

It's a pretty fine line on whether Wyody and I are discussing driving into Portland on I-84 or on Hwy 14 on the Washington side or are we argueing on which way.

I guess the only way is the language that a person uses. 99% of the posts would be considered ok if they wouldn't try twisting the knife. For instance,

That was a very interesting post, but could you explain.
vrs
That was a very interesting post, for a moron.

Like I said, you've got your work cut out for you on this one.

RAINBOWWAVES · 02-25-2007, 02:50 PM

a debate area would be like a boxing ring which is fine with me..but it must stay within the ropes...

**RodFarlee** · 02-25-2007, 03:45 PM

Admin, I ask you to pause for a moment and ask yourself what kind of forum you wish Talk States to be. That is entirely your decision. Once you have defined that for yourself, it will be apparent whether you wish to host a "Flame Fest" forum, or not.

There are thousands of forums on the web devoted to White Power, Zionist Conspiracy, advocacy of violence of all kinds, etc. etc. Our member dingo71 brought some of these right in here, because they fit right in, well within the scope of ongoing discussions in the Community Lounge. So, they quickly became a relevant part of the discussion, whether they remained up or not. The first thing you'll have to do is move many of the Community Lounge threads into this Debate Area, and keep moving more as many threads deteriorate into chaos. More likely, Community Lounge will become derelicit.

I must admit, it has been fascinating to watch one personality utterly impervious to introspection, another impervious to rationality, and a third whose thin veneer of civility instantly goes up in a puff of smoke. But if you choose to proceed and encourage such behavior, I despair of learning or benefitting much more from future participation here. The "imaginary boundary" between Community Lounge, Introductions, and even States has been repeatedly breached, and if you choose to further encourage this sort of behavior, it is unlikely to be contained within the confines of a Debate Area. That is entirely wishful thinking, based on experience here. I suggest you start a completely separate forum, TalkDebate.com or something, if you wish to foot the bill for that.

I am of the opinion that, in the polls posted on violence, racism and pleasantness, there is only one vote that really counts, and you've failed to cast it.

Is this the kind of forum you wish to pay the bandwidth charges to host? If so, as Edward R. Murrow said, good night and good luck. My advise: either cut your losses now and shut TalkStates down, or decide on your goals, set some basic standards of conduct and content required to meet those goals, and, regrettably, be willing to enforce them.

**Admin** · 02-25-2007, 05:13 PM

Thanks for the post Rod.

I already plan on cleaning up the forum this week. I have let many threads get much father out of hand than I should have. When I said this place would have less moderation than another popular site, I meant that people would be able to post links to useful information without every link being deleted and some negative opinions of cities would be allowed. I did not mean that people would be allowed to attack each other all day long here. I will be writing out and clarifying rules, stepping up enforcement of those rules, and cleaning up old threads. I will not be going as far as the site that many of us left, but the current small set of rules that I put up when I first started the site are too open to personal interpretation, especially the one about using common sense.

I will still be trying out the debate area, if it turns out to be nothing but personal attacks and very little debate, it can be removed faster than I added it.

**RodFarlee** · 02-25-2007, 05:39 PM

Admin, thank you. I find this... potentially encouraging.

A minor note for your future consideration: some things are black and white, easily decided. But if you find areas where there are shades of grey, polling the membership may be useful. The polls posted so far (referenced above) were acts borne more of desperation than of inspiration, so are not good examples. But polls on more ambiguous questions may have their place in future. There's nothing wrong with a little democracy breaking out, when the question of what most members prefer is both relevant and unclear. That was not true of the above issues, though. Thank you.

**Wyody** · 02-25-2007, 10:33 PM

Rod, you adjusted the whole "Big Picture" well

**isabel** · 02-26-2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

Admin, I ask you to pause for a moment and ask yourself what kind of forum you wish Talk States to be. That is entirely your decision. Once you have defined that for yourself, it will be apparent whether you wish to host a "Flame Fest" forum, or not.

There are thousands of forums on the web devoted to White Power, Zionist Conspiracy, advocacy of violence of all kinds, etc. etc. Our member dingo71 brought some of these right in here, because they fit right in, well within the scope of ongoing discussions in the Community Lounge. So, they quickly became a relevant part of the discussion, whether they remained up or not. The first thing you'll have to do is move many of the Community Lounge threads into this Debate Area, and keep moving more as many threads deteriorate into chaos. More likely, Community Lounge will become derelicit.

I must admit, it has been fascinating to watch one personality utterly impervious to introspection, another impervious to rationality, and a third whose thin veneer of civility instantly goes up in a puff of smoke. But if you choose to proceed and encourage such behavior, I despair of learning or benefitting much more from future participation here. The "imaginary boundary" between Community Lounge, Introductions, and even States has been repeatedly breached, and if you choose to further encourage this sort of behavior, it is unlikely to be contained within the confines of a Debate Area. That is entirely wishful thinking, based on experience here. I suggest you start a completely separate forum, TalkDebate.com or something, if you wish to foot the bill for that.

I am of the opinion that, in the polls posted on violence, racism and pleasantness, there is only one vote that really counts, and you've failed to cast it.

Is this the kind of forum you wish to pay the bandwidth charges to host? If so, as Edward R. Murrow said, good night and good luck. My advise: either cut your losses now and shut TalkStates down, or decide on your goals, set some basic standards of conduct and content required to meet those goals, and, regrettably, be willing to enforce them.

Thank you Rod for this post...you say it "all" so well. I personally don't think a debate forum will add to this site. The community lounge has already proven that. All the bad stuff just bleed from one thread to another...regardless of the topic, and if it wasn't a controversial subject...then it was soon made one, by someone still hot from another thread. Bad vibes...so to speak. I think the focus needs to be pushed/led back to the states and out of the community lounge. Just my two cents. I really enjoy it here and find most folks really interesting...But I have stayed out of a lot of threads lately. Just reading and observing:)

Izzy

**isabel** · 02-26-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

Thanks for the post Rod.

I already plan on cleaning up the forum this week. I have let many threads get much father out of hand than I should have. When I said this place would have less moderation than another popular site, I meant that people would be able to post links to useful information without every link being deleted and some negative opinions of cities would be allowed. I did not mean that people would be allowed to attack each other all day long here. I will be writing out and clarifying rules, stepping up enforcement of those rules, and cleaning up old threads. I will not be going as far as the site that many of us left, but the current small set of rules that I put up when I first started the site are too open to personal interpretation, especially the one about using common sense.

I will still be trying out the debate area, if it turns out to be nothing but personal attacks and very little debate, it can be removed faster than I added it.

I was really happy to read this. Thank you admin. I'm sticking around to see how it all pans out. I think Dufferz and Rod would make a great check system...if you are in doubt about taking action against a user. I value both there views, and think their both pretty fair minded. Then there are the polls which would give feedback on general issues. Thanks for asking your users for their input:) Will be looking forward to the changes.

Izzy

**Wyody** · 02-26-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isabel

I was really happy to read this. Thank you admin. I'm sticking around to see how it all pans out. I think Dufferz and Rod would make a great check system...if you are in doubt about taking action against a user. I value both there views, and think their both pretty fair minded. Then there are the polls which would give feedback on general issues. Thanks for asking your users for their input:) Will be looking forward to the changes.

Izzy

\

Gotta say though, I can't get over the impact of TT swinging thru the Pit in a once-a-month pay-per-view event! We're talking endorsements here! Cash!

**jabm67** · 02-26-2007, 09:58 AM

At another place I pop in, the few-holds-barred area is called "The Inferno". I read it irregularly, but approximately never post there.

**cleozmom** · 02-26-2007, 11:09 AM

I say that RodFarlee said it well and I agree with all he said. Admin, I'm glad that you're looking into things and well tidying things up a bit.

TalmudTemple · 02-26-2007, 11:39 AM

I think that some of the participants sound like they are entitled to superimpose what they feel is legitimate discourse on this forum.

I find that odd...given the currently stated rules as provided.

Others on this forum feel that their input is somehow more 'valuable' and based in some brand of higher 'reasoning', which is quite laughable..

Others still, are taking their alleged, self-appointed, self-righteous, overly pedantic involvement a bit too seriously.

That said, a clear set of rules of participation is always in order.

Censorship, or an attempt to 'steer' subject matter, or eliminate subject matter in a community forum (as presently conducted) is never a good idea.

I might add there have been surreptitious attempts even to muzzle and or curtail my participation.

Any unreasonable censorship or clever denial of access to the ability to post is telling indeed.

Just look at the attempts to 'bridle' (reasonable) free speech.

No one has to like opinions....opinions need not be supported by 'facts' in any discourse on a web-based forum.

Some participants here find a need to be patriarchal, thinking there is some sort of 'need' for their 'wise leadership'. They seem to be self-aggrandizing meshuggenehs.....serving their own brand of Kool-Aid

**Wyody** · 02-26-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalmudTemples

Some participants here find a need to be patriarchal, thinking there is some sort of 'need' for their 'wise leadership'. They seem to be self-aggrandizing meshuggenehs.....serving their own brand of Kool-Aid

By Jove - that's it! Wise leadership! Vote for ME!!! (Oh, I ain't running).
Just for the record - I don't care for Koolaid. I prefer a double-shot of Bushmill's or Tullamore Dew over ice ... tall ... and a sawed-off!

TalmudTemple · 02-26-2007, 11:57 AM

wyody:

check you mail

**jabm67** · 02-26-2007, 06:28 PM

Seen elsewhere on the web, and likely to be relevant for a "debate area":

Quote:

Everybody always talks about making sense. Who is Sense? Is she good in the sack? Why does everyone try to make her? What'll I catch from her if I succeed in making her? Will she talk behind my back, and compare me unfavorably to the basset across the street? Seems like way too much buzz for a trampy babe that no one actually has ever made, but likes to say they have.

**Wyody** · 02-26-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabm67

Seen elsewhere on the web, and likely to be relevant for a "debate area":

And that is exactly the type of lingo I can understand!
Wallow, indeed!

**Panterro** · 02-26-2007, 08:55 PM

SERIOUS DISCUSSION

Use this forum to talk about subjects that are off-topic, but are more serious in nature than the usual humor or fun chatter that takes place in Off Topic. This includes controversial topics (such as politics), which is why you should remember:

Absolutely no flaming. There will be a zero tolerance policy in this section, and causing any sort of problems will result in an instant and possibly permanent ban.

Do not intentionally incite flamewars or jump into a topic just to cause problems; this falls under the above "no flaming" rule and will have the same consequences.

Although you will be given some leeway as far as subjects to discuss, all other forum rules apply. For example, you may discuss the legality of drugs, violence in movies, etc., but you may not discuss how to use drugs, or post pictures of the violence.

If you can't discuss serious topics in a mature and reasonable fashion, then get out. This forum is not for you.

This is how another forum has set up a forum for SERIOUS DISCUSSIONS. It has worked out so far.. ( http://forum.warrock.net/index.php?showforum=31 )

**RodFarlee** · 02-27-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panterro

Absolutely no flaming...

I think this is a wonderful suggestion. It is considerably broader than my woefully modest proposal that outright threats of violence not become part of the discourse here. It would mark a dramatic improvement in the tenor of this forum.

I'm simply speechless. All I can say is thank you, apology most gratefully accepted, sir! Wow!

TalmudTemple · 02-27-2007, 10:44 AM

Some of you sound like you should set up your OWN websites and forums, or get a job doing it for some other companies..

"Helping to solve problems of Correct Forum Usage"...whoa !

Too funny !

**Wyody** · 02-27-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalmudTemple

Some of you sound like you should set up your OWN websites and forums, or get a job doing it for some other companies..

"Helping to solve problems of Correct Forum Usage"...whoa !

Too funny !

I'm a little new to online proceedings - I usually use the swings at the REAL playgrounds - but wouldn't this be the same thing as "Blog" sites?
Which, maybe you missed my post over in the "Vent" Forum - but I'll repeat the part that says "We should have our own TV Show"!
I was just trying to imagine what my own site or forum would look like - one would have to brush aside the tall grass and weeds, hike over the spooky and swinging foot-bridge, take a moment at the gate with a fresh cup of coffee while standing on a rock overlooking the miles and miles of valley below - then take off their shoes, throw on some stupid looking hat, walk in, sit down, uncork a barley-pop and light the pipe while hollering at me to wake up and spend some time with them.
Perhaps TalkStates could support a few spin-offs? Uncle Rod's No-spin zone, Dufferz Dungeon, Rainbow's Castle?
Me, I'll just hang around the shanty 'til the mail-boat comes back.

**CandyApple** · 03-01-2007, 02:30 AM

I haven't seen ducky's political brawl hall, but maybe if you don't want this site to be a "flame fest", instead of a forum you could have a link to ducky's site. The same way that you have international (link).

**Wyody** · 03-01-2007, 09:21 AM

I would like to suggest that a "Room for Side-bets" issue still remain on the table even if we don't have a debate "area". Perhaps Mr. Farlee could help with his knowledge and abilities regarding the design of polls? I look around-site ... and see plenty of room for spectators and gaming activity.
Adults?? Harrumph! That may be what's wrong with America. Forget the parts about putting women, blacks, hispanics and other "minorities" in charge - let's give it all to the 5th-graders now and we "adults" can go play! What're they gonna do? Blow something up?

**isabel** · 03-01-2007, 10:12 AM

Wyody, you never fail to surprise me:) My mom use to say about the same thing. "Let the kids play...What are they going to do...blow something up? Relax."

We could do what my hubby did recently...One of the kids got air rockets for xmas. The kind you step on a air pump and they shoot across the yard. Well it was raining...so he put the kids at the other end of the hall way and put laundry baskets on their heads..kinda like armor...then he shoot rockets at them from the other end of the hall. A fun time was had by all.

Hey! on my mac there is a keystroke that you can use that sends a space guy with a suit walking across the screen and it shoots at the text, it blows up and disappears. Could we have one of those here:)

Izzy

**Wyody** · 03-01-2007, 10:55 AM

[quote=isabel;10383]Wyody, you never fail to surprise me:) My mom use to say about the same thing. "Let the kids play...What are they going to do...blow something up? Relax."
... so he put the kids at the other end of the hall way and put laundry baskets on their heads..kinda like armor...then he shoot rockets at them from the other end of the hall. A fun time was had by all.

I like the idea ... of course, I'm still under the delusion that I'm the "pillow-fightingest, wet-towel snappingest, water-fightingest Champion of the World" - all left-overs from my "heyday" - perhaps not the best big-kid to have on your side.

Hey! on my mac there is a keystroke that you can use that sends a space guy with a suit walking across the screen and it shoots at the text, it blows up and disappears. Could we have one of those here:)

Let me get my personal 'puter up so's I can download something - I want the space-guy!

**jabm67** · 03-01-2007, 12:24 PM

Hee hee. I just noticed that with the current board software you can report yourself. (I've seen other boards where the equivalent of the danger/report icon isn't displayed for your own posts.) Don't worry, Admin, I think I hit "Back" before the report was sent, and I won't do it again.

02-25-2007, 12:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
Admin Administrator Join Date: Oct 12th, 2006 Posts: 461	Debate Area I am working on getting the requested debate area open. I want to have some rules in place before opening it, and want some opinions. Do you think flaming should be allowed? I prefer the thought of attack the post, not the poster, but I also know that does not always happen. Should it be a rule violation in the debate area or not? I have already decided that it will be an opt-in forum, so people that do not want to participate or even read it, will not have to see it. Joining will also be moderated, so people that can't follow the debate rules can have their access revoked without banning them from the entire site. I will choose somebody here other than myself to control the access list, and probably give them the ability to move posts in and out. Does anybody have a creative name suggestion other than just debate? I am open to any other suggestions. I may not implement them all, but I will take them into consideration.

02-25-2007, 12:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
Wyody arrgh, me buckoes Join Date: Jan 14th, 2007 Posts: 2,142	Re: Debate Area I might call it "The Pit". And perhaps, instead of smilies, one can choose from a collection of medieval arms. There should also be an olive-branch ... for when it's time for someone to make peace, give in, give up or keel over from exhaustion. Of course, Admin and/or the moderator would have a boot and a blowtorch. Concerning the area of rules violation - the mod would have a list of one-liners such as "personal insults are out of bounds" and perhaps a numbering system such as "That's 1" - which would not have to be issued at every violation but perhaps at every serious violation or succession of smaller ones. When someone receives the "That's 3" notice, their avatar is subjected to boot or blowtorch thus removing them from The Pit. To avoid the possibility of a moderator over-reacting and thus ruining an otherwise acceptable debate, three opinions from other members would be presented to Admin for "higher-judgement" and the debate would continue at Admin's discretion. And perhaps, as PDX once mentioned - some "Pit" debates could be sent into a "Cage" with actual bloodshed occurring! __________________ Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. <Mark Twain>

02-25-2007, 01:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
the dufferz Duff man! Join Date: Jan 04th, 2007 Location: Bothell, Washington Posts: 1,320	Re: Debate Area The ring. the cage, The pit. Cock fight the temple of doom The killing zone the I hate you zone I think that adults who debate, are capable of framing the debate to be non-personal. That said, it will not happen with some posters who get so involved they can't help it. Being an "opt-in" seems to be a good way to get these battles off the other parts of the board. I think that personal threats should be the line that once crossed should have that member escorted off the forum. But if a member is banned, the text or post should be available to everyone to view so that they can see what happened. This "we had our reasons" crap we got at C-D was awefully easy to hide behind. __________________ "Who am I and what am I doing here?" - James stockdale, Ross Perrot VP candidate, VP debate, 1992. My favorite political statement.

02-25-2007, 03:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
kimbercuddles Cheery Chick Join Date: Jan 02nd, 2007 Location: Navarre, Florida Posts: 1,089	Re: Debate Area I agree, Dufferz...after pm'ing the admin about three times at City-data, I still had no answers and was unable to post. Finally, I asked to be banned so that people would know that I wasn't just ignoring the forum. __________________ Real generosity is doing something nice for someone who will never find it out.

02-25-2007, 08:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
Wyody arrgh, me buckoes Join Date: Jan 14th, 2007 Posts: 2,142	Re: Debate Area What I really was not considering earlier is that ...... not all debates would necessarily be argumentative blood-baths ... would they? Well perhaps - I mean, if they're as civil as a civil chess-match then, there would be no need to shield them from the forum. While I doubt that I would find myself in such debates given the caliber of informed persons that we have here, might I suggest that Farlee be in charge of serving the Brandy and Duff handle first-aid? __________________ Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. <Mark Twain>

02-25-2007, 11:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
Wyoming53 Hermit Join Date: Jan 21st, 2007 Location: Sheridan, Wy. Posts: 1,522	Re: Debate Area Admin, I would say you have your hands full. It's a pretty fine line on whether Wyody and I are discussing driving into Portland on I-84 or on Hwy 14 on the Washington side or are we argueing on which way. I guess the only way is the language that a person uses. 99% of the posts would be considered ok if they wouldn't try twisting the knife. For instance, That was a very interesting post, but could you explain. vrs That was a very interesting post, for a moron. Like I said, you've got your work cut out for you on this one. __________________ Wyoming Heat.

02-25-2007, 02:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
RAINBOWWAVES Banned Join Date: Oct 18th, 2006 Posts: 715	Re: Debate Area a debate area would be like a boxing ring which is fine with me..but it must stay within the ropes...

02-25-2007, 03:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
RodFarlee American Join Date: Jan 15th, 2007 Posts: 345	Re: Debate Area Admin, I ask you to pause for a moment and ask yourself what kind of forum you wish Talk States to be. That is entirely your decision. Once you have defined that for yourself, it will be apparent whether you wish to host a "Flame Fest" forum, or not. There are thousands of forums on the web devoted to White Power, Zionist Conspiracy, advocacy of violence of all kinds, etc. etc. Our member dingo71 brought some of these right in here, because they fit right in, well within the scope of ongoing discussions in the Community Lounge. So, they quickly became a relevant part of the discussion, whether they remained up or not. The first thing you'll have to do is move many of the Community Lounge threads into this Debate Area, and keep moving more as many threads deteriorate into chaos. More likely, Community Lounge will become derelicit. I must admit, it has been fascinating to watch one personality utterly impervious to introspection, another impervious to rationality, and a third whose thin veneer of civility instantly goes up in a puff of smoke. But if you choose to proceed and encourage such behavior, I despair of learning or benefitting much more from future participation here. The "imaginary boundary" between Community Lounge, Introductions, and even States has been repeatedly breached, and if you choose to further encourage this sort of behavior, it is unlikely to be contained within the confines of a Debate Area. That is entirely wishful thinking, based on experience here. I suggest you start a completely separate forum, TalkDebate.com or something, if you wish to foot the bill for that. I am of the opinion that, in the polls posted on violence, racism and pleasantness, there is only one vote that really counts, and you've failed to cast it. Is this the kind of forum you wish to pay the bandwidth charges to host? If so, as Edward R. Murrow said, good night and good luck. My advise: either cut your losses now and shut TalkStates down, or decide on your goals, set some basic standards of conduct and content required to meet those goals, and, regrettably, be willing to enforce them.

02-25-2007, 05:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
Admin Administrator Join Date: Oct 12th, 2006 Posts: 461	Re: Debate Area Thanks for the post Rod. I already plan on cleaning up the forum this week. I have let many threads get much father out of hand than I should have. When I said this place would have less moderation than another popular site, I meant that people would be able to post links to useful information without every link being deleted and some negative opinions of cities would be allowed. I did not mean that people would be allowed to attack each other all day long here. I will be writing out and clarifying rules, stepping up enforcement of those rules, and cleaning up old threads. I will not be going as far as the site that many of us left, but the current small set of rules that I put up when I first started the site are too open to personal interpretation, especially the one about using common sense. I will still be trying out the debate area, if it turns out to be nothing but personal attacks and very little debate, it can be removed faster than I added it.

02-25-2007, 05:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
RodFarlee American Join Date: Jan 15th, 2007 Posts: 345	Re: Debate Area Admin, thank you. I find this... potentially encouraging. A minor note for your future consideration: some things are black and white, easily decided. But if you find areas where there are shades of grey, polling the membership may be useful. The polls posted so far (referenced above) were acts borne more of desperation than of inspiration, so are not good examples. But polls on more ambiguous questions may have their place in future. There's nothing wrong with a little democracy breaking out, when the question of what most members prefer is both relevant and unclear. That was not true of the above issues, though. Thank you.

02-25-2007, 10:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
Wyody arrgh, me buckoes Join Date: Jan 14th, 2007 Posts: 2,142	Re: Debate Area Rod, you adjusted the whole "Big Picture" well __________________ Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. <Mark Twain>

02-26-2007, 09:58 AM	#15 (permalink)
jabm67 Member Join Date: Jan 16th, 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 186	Re: Debate Area At another place I pop in, the few-holds-barred area is called "The Inferno". I read it irregularly, but approximately never post there.

02-26-2007, 11:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
cleozmom Member Join Date: Jan 17th, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 286	Re: Debate Area I say that RodFarlee said it well and I agree with all he said. Admin, I'm glad that you're looking into things and well tidying things up a bit.

02-26-2007, 11:39 AM	#17 (permalink)
TalmudTemple Member Join Date: Jan 26th, 2007 Location: anywhere I can rake off the top ! I was talk by Ivan Boesky, Mike Milken, Jeff Skilling and many mor Posts: 148	Re: Debate Area I think that some of the participants sound like they are entitled to superimpose what they feel is legitimate discourse on this forum. I find that odd...given the currently stated rules as provided. Others on this forum feel that their input is somehow more 'valuable' and based in some brand of higher 'reasoning', which is quite laughable.. Others still, are taking their alleged, self-appointed, self-righteous, overly pedantic involvement a bit too seriously. That said, a clear set of rules of participation is always in order. Censorship, or an attempt to 'steer' subject matter, or eliminate subject matter in a community forum (as presently conducted) is never a good idea. I might add there have been surreptitious attempts even to muzzle and or curtail my participation. Any unreasonable censorship or clever denial of access to the ability to post is telling indeed. Just look at the attempts to 'bridle' (reasonable) free speech. No one has to like opinions....opinions need not be supported by 'facts' in any discourse on a web-based forum. Some participants here find a need to be patriarchal, thinking there is some sort of 'need' for their 'wise leadership'. They seem to be self-aggrandizing meshuggenehs.....serving their own brand of Kool-Aid

02-26-2007, 11:57 AM	#19 (permalink)
TalmudTemple Member Join Date: Jan 26th, 2007 Location: anywhere I can rake off the top ! I was talk by Ivan Boesky, Mike Milken, Jeff Skilling and many mor Posts: 148	Re: Debate Area wyody: check you mail

02-26-2007, 08:55 PM	#22 (permalink)
Panterro TEXAS ***** ADVISOR Join Date: Jan 21st, 2007 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,512	Re: Debate Area SERIOUS DISCUSSION Use this forum to talk about subjects that are off-topic, but are more serious in nature than the usual humor or fun chatter that takes place in Off Topic. This includes controversial topics (such as politics), which is why you should remember: Absolutely no flaming. There will be a zero tolerance policy in this section, and causing any sort of problems will result in an instant and possibly permanent ban. Do not intentionally incite flamewars or jump into a topic just to cause problems; this falls under the above "no flaming" rule and will have the same consequences. Although you will be given some leeway as far as subjects to discuss, all other forum rules apply. For example, you may discuss the legality of drugs, violence in movies, etc., but you may not discuss how to use drugs, or post pictures of the violence. If you can't discuss serious topics in a mature and reasonable fashion, then get out. This forum is not for you. This is how another forum has set up a forum for SERIOUS DISCUSSIONS. It has worked out so far.. ( http://forum.warrock.net/index.php?showforum=31 ) __________________ "No ma'am. We at the FBI do not have a sense of humor that we're aware of".

02-27-2007, 10:44 AM	#24 (permalink)
TalmudTemple Member Join Date: Jan 26th, 2007 Location: anywhere I can rake off the top ! I was talk by Ivan Boesky, Mike Milken, Jeff Skilling and many mor Posts: 148	Re: Debate Area Some of you sound like you should set up your OWN websites and forums, or get a job doing it for some other companies.. "Helping to solve problems of Correct Forum Usage"...whoa ! Too funny !

03-01-2007, 02:30 AM	#26 (permalink)
CandyApple Back Online! Join Date: Dec 23rd, 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 313	Re: Debate Area I haven't seen ducky's political brawl hall, but maybe if you don't want this site to be a "flame fest", instead of a forum you could have a link to ducky's site. The same way that you have international (link). __________________ I just don't have a whole lot of faith that our FEDERAL GOVERNMENT can do anything right no matter who is in charge. If there was a Google Military it would probably do a much better job with fewer resources... -ProEye

03-01-2007, 09:21 AM	#27 (permalink)
Wyody arrgh, me buckoes Join Date: Jan 14th, 2007 Posts: 2,142	Re: Debate Area I would like to suggest that a "Room for Side-bets" issue still remain on the table even if we don't have a debate "area". Perhaps Mr. Farlee could help with his knowledge and abilities regarding the design of polls? I look around-site ... and see plenty of room for spectators and gaming activity. Adults?? Harrumph! That may be what's wrong with America. Forget the parts about putting women, blacks, hispanics and other "minorities" in charge - let's give it all to the 5th-graders now and we "adults" can go play! What're they gonna do? Blow something up? __________________ Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. <Mark Twain>

03-01-2007, 10:12 AM	#28 (permalink)
isabel STAYING RIGHT HERE Join Date: Jan 17th, 2007 Location: Central CA Posts: 1,361	Re: Debate Area Wyody, you never fail to surprise me:) My mom use to say about the same thing. "Let the kids play...What are they going to do...blow something up? Relax." We could do what my hubby did recently...One of the kids got air rockets for xmas. The kind you step on a air pump and they shoot across the yard. Well it was raining...so he put the kids at the other end of the hall way and put laundry baskets on their heads..kinda like armor...then he shoot rockets at them from the other end of the hall. A fun time was had by all. Hey! on my mac there is a keystroke that you can use that sends a space guy with a suit walking across the screen and it shoots at the text, it blows up and disappears. Could we have one of those here:) Izzy __________________ I discuss, I do not debate:)

03-01-2007, 10:55 AM	#29 (permalink)
Wyody arrgh, me buckoes Join Date: Jan 14th, 2007 Posts: 2,142	Re: Debate Area [quote=isabel;10383]Wyody, you never fail to surprise me:) My mom use to say about the same thing. "Let the kids play...What are they going to do...blow something up? Relax." ... so he put the kids at the other end of the hall way and put laundry baskets on their heads..kinda like armor...then he shoot rockets at them from the other end of the hall. A fun time was had by all. I like the idea ... of course, I'm still under the delusion that I'm the "pillow-fightingest, wet-towel snappingest, water-fightingest Champion of the World" - all left-overs from my "heyday" - perhaps not the best big-kid to have on your side. Hey! on my mac there is a keystroke that you can use that sends a space guy with a suit walking across the screen and it shoots at the text, it blows up and disappears. Could we have one of those here:) Let me get my personal 'puter up so's I can download something - I want the space-guy! __________________ Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. <Mark Twain>

03-01-2007, 12:24 PM	#30 (permalink)
jabm67 Member Join Date: Jan 16th, 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 186	Re: Debate Area Hee hee. I just noticed that with the current board software you can report yourself. (I've seen other boards where the equivalent of the danger/report icon isn't displayed for your own posts.) Don't worry, Admin, I think I hit "Back" before the report was sent, and I won't do it again.