Tips for saving money on your electric bill

[PDXnative]

We were shocked when we saw last months electric bill... $261.... highest ever. Of course, we also installed a hot tub last summer.

So, I went out and bought some thick styrofoam insulation from Home Depot and made custom sized vent covers for our foundation vents. Within 2 hours, our house felt seriously warmer. I should have done that years ago.

I also purchsed a fiberglass insulated water heater jacket for our water heater to help retain the heat.

Other than those two methods, does anyone have any other tips for winterizing a home and lowering the electric bill?

[Curious George]

Foundation vents? Do you have basements or crawl spaces.

[PDXnative]

Our house has a crawl space.

[T.S.]

You could replace all of your lights with compact fluorescent bulbs if you have not already. I did it when I found them on sale once. I think it lowered the electric bill.

The hot tub is probably a big chunk of it though. We had one in Minnesota and it definitely raised the winter electric bill in the winter.

[Curious George]

I assume your crawl space is all above ground you half to make sure there is as much insulation under the house between the floor juices as in the ceiling though not a mobile home similar all six sides are exposed to outside temp. foundation vents are there to keep moister from building up as air temp changes. just like vents in the attic. I would check with local builders to see what they use out there to insulate between floor juices. That will be a big heat savings .also check how much is in ceiling. I put 20” in mine when I built it but I think we have colder winters also works well when the ac is on.

[RodFarlee]

On crawlspace ventilation:
- current building codes (since about 1980) require R-18 insulation under the floors. If your home has this, then crawlspace ventilation should have negligible effect on heat loss.
- current building codes require 1.5 sq ft vent area per 100 sq ft floor area to prevent moisture buildup and damage.
- current codes also require a vapor barrier on the ground in the crawlspace area. Since 1980, this is typically 6 mil or thicker plastic, optionally covered with a couple inches of sand to hold it down and protect it. Before then, since 1960 or so, it was a couple inches of cement poured and roughly leveled in the crawlspace after the foundation was built. Before 1950-60, local codes had no vapor barrier requirement.

If the crawlspace area is really dry (has vapor barrier, or is up on a hill or raised and has excellent drainage), then you can block most of the vents without having a problem. But if it's moist, blocking the vents could promote rot. You have to be the judge of this.

You might consider insulating the floors... spray in foam is easiest, fiberglass batt is less expensive but a hassle in older homes with X crossbracing between the floor joists. Either isn't a bad do-it-yourself job, as long as your home has a decently deep crawlspace (more than 2 feet).

First thing to inspect is openings from the crawlspace into the heated area, particularly around bath/kitchen plumbing. Large gaps here can create quite a draft in cold weather. Easy to seal with spray-in foam. Also inspect where wiring goes up from crawlspace into walls - seal any gaps with foam. (In new construction, code now requires these gaps be sealed.)

[the dufferz]

PDX,

Figure at about a buck a day for the tub.

What kind of heat system do you have? Forced air or zone (baseboard) heat?

You have landed in the dufferz's area of speciality. 16 years as an energy auditor, been in thousands of homes. Talk to the dufferz!

[RodFarlee]

To estimate your hot tub's electric heating cost, you need three numbers:
(1) temperature drop per day.
Flip the hot tub heater breaker off (leave the circulator/ozonator breaker on, if it has a separate breaker). Wait 24 hours, and measure the hot tub temperature (can use the electronic thermostat, noting the center of the temperature range in which the "Ready" light is on).
(2) Volume of the hot tub in gallons.
(3) Your electric rate, cents per kilowatt-hour, on your electric bill.

In my case, in current weather (40 F day, 30 F night):
(1) temp drop 8 F per day
(2) 330 gallons
(3) $0.062 / kWh

Multiply these three numbers and divide by 13.7 to get dollars per month.
8 * 330 * $0.062 /13.7 = $12/month

Add roughly 10 cents per hour that the hot tub is open, plus 10 cents per hour if the jet pump is also running (each is roughly 1 to 2 kW).

Your hot tub shouldn't be adding significantly to your total electric bill. They are pretty well insulated nowadays.

(Where does that 13.7 number come from?
(3413 BTU/kWh / 8.3 lbs/gal) * 30 days/month = 13.7 F-gal/kWh-month)

[PDXnative]

Our bill is $50 a month more than it was last year (pre-hottub) at this time. It was also kind of cold last month, so that might have added to it.

We have baseboard heat. Next house will have forced air!!!! I got a programable thermostat for our baseboard heat and now we never have to touch our thermostat except to shut it off during the summer. I am sure that has saved us some money.

We are also planning to replace all of the windows next year. We will proabably not save enough from that to pay for the windows, it will still add value to our house as it will make it look newer. Our house is a 1973 Ranch style home.

[the dufferz]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

To estimate your hot tub's electric heating cost, you need three numbers:
(1) temperature drop per day.
Flip the hot tub heater breaker off (leave the circulator/ozonator breaker on, if it has a separate breaker). Wait 24 hours, and measure the hot tub temperature (can use the electronic thermostat, noting the center of the temperature range in which the "Ready" light is on).
(2) Volume of the hot tub in gallons.
(3) Your electric rate, cents per kilowatt-hour, on your electric bill.

In my case, in current weather (40 F day, 30 F night):
(1) temp drop 8 F per day
(2) 330 gallons
(3) $0.062 / kWh

Multiply these three numbers and divide by 13.7 to get dollars per month.
8 * 330 * $0.062 /13.7 = $12/month

Add roughly 10 cents per hour that the hot tub is open, plus 10 cents per hour if the jet pump is also running (each is roughly 1 to 2 kW).

Your hot tub shouldn't be adding significantly to your total electric bill. They are pretty well insulated nowadays.

(Where does that 13.7 number come from?
(3413 BTU/kWh / 8.3 lbs/gal) * 30 days/month = 13.7 F-gal/kWh-month)

Sweet farlee. You are da' man. Sounds like we got similar backgrounds. The hard calculation is the evalporation rate, but this formula should get a pretty good response.

PDX, it could also be a misread meter. Used to deal with that all the time (I work for an electric utility). But that would need to be a minor misread.

Was there a rate increase over the last year? You need to look at kWh's not actual bill.

You have to be VERY careful with covering your floor vent. On the west coast, trapping moisture in the crawlspace can have very negative effects.

If your crawlspace is not insulated, indeed that would be a bigger bang for the buck than even windows (investment vs return). With a well insulated crawlspace, covering the vests should not have a big effect on the feeling inside the house (unless it is extremely windy), so it sounds like your crawlspace needs insulation.

That however, is separate from the issue of your bill being higher.

does your utility supply you with the avg. temp between the two periods? If so, that would help.

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by the dufferz

The hard calculation is the evalporation rate, but this formula should get a pretty good response.

Well, actually, it's just the total heat loss.

Evaporation is small, when the R-18 closed cell foam insulated cover is closed. It seals pretty well. For example, my hot tub loses about 40 gallons/year to evaporation.

heat of vaporization: 970 BTU/lb * 8.3 lb/gal / 3413 BTU/kWh = 2.36 kWh/gal

40 gallons * 2.36 kWh/gal * $0.062/kWh = $5.85/year to evaporation

So in my case, it's roughly 4% evaporation and 96% conductive heat loss on a year-round basis. Mine is closed 99+% of the time. On the other hand, when it's open, nearly all the heat loss is evaporation.

All this is just ballpark/back of the envelope. A watthourmeter is the real way to know where you're power's going. You can buy consumer versions of these now. They're an inductive ammeter that clamps around either the hot or neutral lead (not both, they cancel) and integrator. So you have to open things up to use it, and most consumers shouldn't do that.

[the dufferz]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

Well, actually, it's just the total heat loss.

Evaporation is small, when the R-18 closed cell foam insulated cover is closed. It seals pretty well. For example, my hot tub loses about 40 gallons/year to evaporation.

heat of vaporization: 970 BTU/lb * 8.3 lb/gal / 3413 BTU/kWh = 2.36 kWh/gal

40 gallons * 2.36 kWh/gal * $0.062/kWh = $5.85/year to evaporation

So in my case, it's roughly 4% evaporation and 96% conductive heat loss on a year-round basis. Mine is closed 99+% of the time. On the other hand, when it's open, nearly all the heat loss is evaporation.

All this is just ballpark/back of the envelope. A watthourmeter is the real way to know where you're power's going. You can buy consumer versions of these now. They're an inductive ammeter that clamps around either the hot or neutral lead (not both, they cancel) and integrator. So you have to open things up to use it, and most consumers shouldn't do that.

You have a hot tub.... and you have not invited me over? And I thought we were friends.

Like I said, evap. is a small portion and is difficult to actually calculate in that water temp, humidity and surface area add to the cover on cover off part, but heck, probably only you and I care about stuff like that, so never mind.

So, what's that background that give you this knowledge my well educated friend who never invites me over to hot tub?

[Wyoming53]

My house has a above ground crawl space. I've found some minor things that have really helped.

When they cut the hole in the floor for my dryer vent, they cut a 5 inch hole and I have a 4 inch dryer hose. When I got down and felt, I could feel cold air coming through. I got some spray in foam and filled up the gap. Foam says it will handle the temps and for 4 months it has done just fine.

I could also feel cold around my door. Weather stripping was good, rubber seal was good. I pulled the trim off. Sure enough, the gap between the door frame and the wall, you could see daylight. Out come the can of foam again.

I have a Gen-Air stove. You know the type, I can bar-b-que, swap burners and have regular burners, or even put in the flat top for pancakes. But it has a fan in the center. It sucks everything to the center of the stove top and down it goes. When I place my hand above that, I can feel cold. When I installed that, I made sure I put in the vent on the outside of the house so it had a trap door. Even put screen over it to keep critters from working their way in there. It still leaked enough so you could feel it. So I cut a piece of wood and put a handle on it. Now, I remove the center grate and place this piece of wood in and it completely seals the air ven/suction fan. Course, you want to make sure you remove it before using it. So I put a little sign right above the on/off switch saying, "Make sure you remove the block". So far, so good. Stove also has a hood fan above it so for normal operation we use it. But if we bar-b-q, we have to use the center fan also.

Drains in the sinks. I could feel cold air in my sink drains. Course, as you know, they are all vented to some extent. So I simply put the stoppers in them while not in use.

After encountering the door problem, I pulled the trim around windows. Yup, a couple had the same problem. Out came the foam again. haha

My windows are excellent. I have 2x6 walls. One glass window (slides up and down) is on the inside wall. The other glass and screen (also a slider) is on the outside wall, giving me 6 inches of air gap between the two. They are really nice.

Hope my experience can give you some ideas.

2 years ago my daughter and son-in-law were renting this house from me. They are fairly energy concious. Their bill Run in the $300 per month range. That's gas and electric. Now that I've done the adjustments to the shack, my gas and electric runs me about $130-150 a month.

Like I said, all little things that didn't cost more then some scrap wood and a couple cans of expanding foam.

[cleozmom]

We have baseboard heat, not my choice, however much better than in the apartment we rented which had ceiling heat.

PDXnative- I was told you can't have programmable thermostats for the baseboard heaters, seems like that was incorrect. What brand are your heaters? I would much prefer to have the programmable thermostats!

[the dufferz]

Originally Posted by cleozmom

We have baseboard heat, not my choice, however much better than in the apartment we rented which had ceiling heat.

PDXnative- I was told you can't have programmable thermostats for the baseboard heaters, seems like that was incorrect. What brand are your heaters? I would much prefer to have the programmable thermostats!

yuck! ceiling cable heat is terrible, and terribly expensive to use.

Honeywell now makes programmable thermostats for baseboard heat. You can't use the regular programmable thermostats because they are low voltage (running at 24 volts) where the baseboard heat is "line" voltage, running at 240 volts.

So, you can now order programmable "line voltage" thermostats, regardless of what type of baseboard heat you have.

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by the dufferz

So, what's that background that give you this knowledge my well educated friend who never invites me over to hot tub?

Just a nerd. When I was 12, dad gave me the NEC Code book, and then I had one really good electronics class in high school. Still, know the diff' between kW and kWh, which is more than you can say of any Seattle Times reporter! (A pet peeve of mine; would they confuse mph and miles? egad!)

Originally Posted by Wyoming53

Drains in the sinks. I could feel cold air in my sink drains. Course, as you know, they are all vented to some extent. So I simply put the stoppers in them while not in use.

Wy', if the trap is filled with water, then it shouldn't be possible to get a draft up any drain! The vents are on the other side of the trap in all cases.


Older (single wall) recessed ceiling fixtures are another heat loser. It's worth replacing them with the newer double-wall ones that can be buried in attic insulation. That's another post-1980? code change.


trivia note: Some electric baseboards in large rooms (over about ~4 kW or 16 feet of baseboard) have low voltage thermostats and transformer/relay controllers.

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by cleozmom

We have baseboard heat, not my choice, however much better than in the apartment we rented which had ceiling heat.

PDXnative- I was told you can't have programmable thermostats for the baseboard heaters, seems like that was incorrect. What brand are your heaters? I would much prefer to have the programmable thermostats!

If you have a wall thermostat for your baseboards, you can get a digital programable one at Home depot and probably Lowes. Make sure you have turned off the power, as baseboards use 220 volt. The installation was really easy. Disconnect the old one, reconnect the new one, and mount it to the wall. And then set the programming. If you want a brand and model I will look at that this evening when I get home and post it. When you are looking for one, just make sure it is for 220 volt systems.

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

Just a nerd. When I was 12, dad gave me the NEC Code book, and then I had one really good electronics class in high school. Still, know the diff' between kW and kWh, which is more than you can say of any Seattle Times reporter! (A pet peeve of mine; would they confuse mph and miles? egad!)




Wy', if the trap is filled with water, then it shouldn't be possible to get a draft up any drain! The vents are on the other side of the trap in all cases.


Older (single wall) recessed ceiling fixtures are another heat loser. It's worth replacing them with the newer double-wall ones that can be buried in attic insulation. That's another post-1980? code change.


trivia note: Some electric baseboards in large rooms (over about ~4 kW or 16 feet of baseboard) have low voltage thermostats and transformer/relay controllers.

Drain vents go up to the roof (those pipes sticking up). At least they do on our house.

And never asssume your baseboard thermostat is low voltage!!!! I made that mistake and took a volt reading with the wires being live.... 220 VOLTS!!!!!!

[Wyoming53]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

Wy', if the trap is filled with water, then it shouldn't be possible to get a draft up any drain! The vents are on the other side of the trap in all cases.

I'm not sure if the water is going down with such a rush that it chases the trap and there is no water, or if it's just cold enough that it's making the water cold. But I can feel cold coming up from my drains.

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by cleozmom

We have baseboard heat, not my choice, however much better than in the apartment we rented which had ceiling heat.

PDXnative- I was told you can't have programmable thermostats for the baseboard heaters, seems like that was incorrect. What brand are your heaters? I would much prefer to have the programmable thermostats!

Our baseboard wall thermostat is a Lux ELV1001. I believe we bought it at Home Depot for pretty cheap.

[cleozmom]

Dufferz and PDX, thanks for the brand names of the two programmable thermostats. This has to be something extremely recent? I know when we bough the home in late '02 I check some out at HD and they informed me that "no can do".

Yes, you're abolutely correct about ceiling heat being garbage. I suffered far too many sinus headaches due to that lovely contraption! First night there, I told my husband he needed to move the boxes away from the walls as I wanted to turn the heat on, (Nov.) I was fraid they were on the vents......... coudlnt' find a vent at all. I was thinking there's no possible way in Idaho that they'd have apartments without heaters and then his 6'4 self reached up and felt the heat

[PDXnative]

Originally Posted by cleozmom

Dufferz and PDX, thanks for the brand names of the two programmable thermostats. This has to be something extremely recent? I know when we bough the home in late '02 I check some out at HD and they informed me that "no can do".

Yes, you're abolutely correct about ceiling heat being garbage. I suffered far too many sinus headaches due to that lovely contraption! First night there, I told my husband he needed to move the boxes away from the walls as I wanted to turn the heat on, (Nov.) I was fraid they were on the vents......... coudlnt' find a vent at all. I was thinking there's no possible way in Idaho that they'd have apartments without heaters and then his 6'4 self reached up and felt the heat

I bought the programmable thermostat about 3 years ago. Home Depot's vary in what they carry. You can order it through Amazon.com here:

http://www.amazon.com/ELV1-Lux-Products-Programmab...